Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 55 Getting Real About Midlife Sobriety With Lori Massicot

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 55

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Embracing a life free from alcohol can feel like you're hiking alone up a huge mountain—but it doesn't have to be. Joining me is Lori Massicot, a fantastic certified life and sobriety coach and the amazing host of the To Fifty and Beyond podcast, dedicated to helping midlife women aged 35+ find freedom from alcohol. Lori is taking a stroll down memory lane and vividly sharing her own ascent to a decade of sober living, which honestly took her by surprise. 

In our heart-to-heart, Lori and I get real about our histories with alcohol, the midlife identity crises (hello, grief!), and how breaking free has given our lives a major makeover. We chat about the mental battles of that tricky first year sober and why having a solid support crew is non-negotiable, especially when society's shouting for you to hit the bar again. And let's not forget the midlife crossroads; Lori spills the beans on her lifelines, and we dish about self-care must-haves like regular exercise and journaling. Plus, we dive into the ever-growing world of non-alcoholic options.

No matter where you are on your sober journey, Lori's story is packed with takeaways to give you that extra boost!

Get in touch with Lori!
Website | Instagram
To Fifty and Beyond Podcast

Registration is now open for The Mocktail Summit (January 14-16)!

Order a copy of The Happiest Hour: Delicious Mocktails for a Fabulous Moms' Night In

A huge thank you to the sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free podcast!
Giesen 0% Wines

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

Welcome to the Thriving Alcohol Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you or you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay, hey, friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol Free. I am so happy that you are here, super excited.

Deb:

Today we have a special, special guest. I actually was a guest on her podcast. Lori Massicot is my guest today. She is a certified life and sobriety coach and the host of To Fifty and Beyond Podcast. Now, that is not the number 250. That is to, like you're going to 50, 50 years old and beyond podcast. Her podcast is dedicated to helping midlife women find freedom from alcohol, and that is something we are very interested here on. The Thriving Alcohol Free podcast, lori specializes in helping women 35 and over stop drinking and transition to an alcohol free lifestyle with practicality and lots of love. Oh my goodness, perfect Practicality and lots of love. What could be better? What else do we need? Right, we don't need all tricks and this and that, we just need, yeah, love our way to sobriety. Right?

Lori:

With practical tips, simple, simple and lots of love. Yes, yes.

Deb:

I love it. Thank you for joining me today.

Lori:

Thank you Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be back together with you.

Deb:

I know it's so funny because you and I we're recording this end of January and you and I are laughing, saying like happy new year. And we're saying like we're going to keep saying this all year long because the year is just flying Like how, how is it January 24th when we're recording? I think this is coming out obviously February.

Lori:

So well, it's interesting because we recorded together on Too Fifty and Beyond in November of 2023. And that seems like yesterday, Like I just saw this morning looking for my calendar and I'm like, oh my gosh, we just did November, but it seems like it was last week.

Deb:

Yeah it was like last week, yeah, yeah, so it's great to see you again. I feel like we have coffee together every week now. Yes, yes, I love it.

Lori:

I love it. Thank you for having me. Okay, I'm super excited.

Deb:

Yes, Thank you for being here. I would love for you to just share your story. I think it's so awesome. You are a decade beyond a decade of being alcohol-free, so you have a lot to share. So would you share a little bit about your story, about becoming alcohol-free or becoming sober? Did you use that word in?

Lori:

the beginning. No, I didn't use the word sober, I used AF. I would write about it in my journal AF. I wasn't acknowledging that until about two years in. I started drinking when I was 14. So around 1982.

Lori:

And I was a very consistent drinker, meaning that I was all in on drinking. I loved everything about it. I had self-identified with being a party girl. I was known for that. You know. I grew up in a town, long Beach, california, where I went to high school with just fun friends and we partied very young and we kept it going.

Lori:

And then I got into my 30s, I got married, I had my son, things started to shift and I was feeling the other side of drinking for the first time, plus not knowing this. But in my late 30s I started to experience the early signs of perimenopause and as I got into my early 40s, I lost my mom and so I was grieving and the drinking had picked up. The perimenopause had picked up and I started a journal in May of 2013 to track how I was feeling, because I was just feeling so bad and I was going to the doctor and going back to the doctor. I was not getting any answers, and so I wanted to track, like, what is happening with me, and I started writing about my drinking and what was happening there. For the very first time, I started to question it and I realized, you know, I just don't think that you can keep drinking. And so let me back up a little bit. About two years before I stopped drinking, I had someone in my family mention the term alcoholic to me, and not necessarily towards me. It was kind of a general statement about the family and that's when it would like a light bulb hit, like I wanted to prove to everybody and myself that I wasn't. So I started to research, I started to take all the quizzes, really questioning my drinking. I was scared because what I was learning about it it was about my drinking, not the risks or anything like that. It was, wow, maybe you're not a party girl, maybe this is more than what you thought. And so for two years I really did. I tried to do all the rules I did you know I'm going to moderate, I can just have one all of those things and I disappointed myself often and I just started to feel like man, I can't keep this going. So around 40, well, not around 45. I was 45.

Lori:

August 11, 2013,. I was home by myself and I had two bottles of wine on deck because I was at that time, I would only buy for the day, like I wasn't storing it because I didn't want to drink. You know, it was all those rules. And so I had my wine. My husband and son were camping. I was about a glass or two in and it was just like I've told this story so many times, but it's like I heard this voice you have had enough. You have had enough for two, three lifetimes, like it is enough. And that moment I had no plans on quitting drinking. That night. That moment, I just got up, I took both the bottles, I dumped them down the sink and I vowed that, whatever it takes, I am going to not drink. Wow, from that moment forward, I haven't had a drink. It just sounds so easy. Wow, it wasn't.

Deb:

No, oh no, oh no to have two. I mean I know, yeah, Everybody's gone, you're alone at home. It's like, okay, party time, right. Cause like, partying when you're 14 is very different than partying when you're in your 40s, right, You're like, okay, the house is alone, or the house is quiet. I'm alone at home, it's quiet. Now I can party. You know, I've got two bottles on deck. Yeah, that's very hard to pour those down the drain. Yeah, it's like counterintuitive. Everything You've prepared yourself for that weekend. Yeah, you're gonna have a good time, yeah.

Lori:

Oh yeah, that's what I did. I was very strategic with my drinking and for so many years I enjoyed drinking like that, but I wasn't enjoying it anymore. I was really out of conflict with myself. You know, this is something that I've done for three decades. This is what other people know me to be doing. What will I be like if I stop drinking? Who will I be? All of those spheres, you know, it was just all of those spheres. But that night, and then trying to figure out, well, what kind of drink are you? What does this mean about you? That was holding me back. You know, I had this image of what a person who stops drinking looks like and who they are, and I wasn't relating to that at all. And I realized that night and I said to myself it just doesn't matter anymore, you don't have to question it, it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do, moving forward.

Deb:

Good for you. Good for you Really just full stop, I'm done, yeah, yeah. And to go all in to figure out how am I gonna do this. I'm gonna go all in on not drinking.

Lori:

That's what I, yeah, that's what I did honestly and what I said. You know it sounds so easy, like all of that, oh, it just sounds so easy. And you know, there are women that I know personally, that I work with over the years. It takes years and years, and years to get to that point. It took me two years.

Lori:

But you know, maybe there was moments at the back of my head, especially after I had my son, like, well, you can't drink if you're a mom, like you can't do that. You know, I was thinking about it, but I didn't bring it to light until somebody had mentioned something about me. But about the term alcoholic and listen, I'm not somebody who uses labels or anything like that it was just mentioned to me and I thought, oh, how dare you, how dare you? Let me prove to myself, Let me prove to everybody else I can drink normally. But I couldn't because I didn't want to, if normal even exists, right, I'm talking. Like you know, you have a little bit of wine and no, I was not having a little bit of wine, I didn't want to drink like that.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't want to. I was like, no, if I'm gonna have one, I'd like to have a whole bottle. Please, yes, at least, please, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, wow, okay. So that next day you've poured down two bottles, or you know, minus the glass and a half, whatever you poured down the two bottles. Now you're like what am I gonna do? Where are you on day one of not drinking, or I guess that's David, such a good question.

Lori:

Such a good question. I love those questions because that's when it really starts. You know, I woke up and I will tell you a little bit of backstory. I was not somebody who I considered having any willpower or discipline. I would say I was gonna do something and then I would go back and like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I was home alone still. My husband and son came home that day and when my husband came home I was crying. I said I can't drink anymore. And he said you know, I don't think you need to quit drinking, but you know, if that's what you want, like I don't have to drink either.

Lori:

And we men in a bar in 1997, I mean, we partied, we traveled, we did all the things. And so I thought, right, neither one of us are gonna be able to do this. But I had his support, which was key. Wow, that's huge. It made it better for me. But it still wasn't easy to do. And you know, at least I had that support and him rallying behind me. But boy, that first year, deb, I was going back and forth at every chance I could Do. You think I could keep drinking? Do you think, you know, should I drink? You know just all of that, because I was just working it out. You know, that's how we figure it out is we start asking questions and we move forward.

Deb:

That's so good. No, it's true. You just start working it out as you're moving forward. You're figuring it out as you go. Doesn't just look like this magic pill just comes over. You Like, yes, you heard a voice, right, but that you had to keep on fighting with that right For the next however long.

Lori:

Yeah, yeah. And that's why you know it's important to share stories, because you know you hear somebody just say, oh my gosh, I'm just gonna pour these bottles of wine down the sink and I'm gonna just never drink again. It sounds so easy to do, but there's always different layers to it and for me it wasn't easy. I just knew because I knew myself and I think it's so important, especially in midlife, like for us to be honest with ourselves. I knew my personality. I knew that if I had one sip, I was gonna be right back to it. I knew all of these things and plus the fact I was so exhausted by trying to moderate, I felt so deprived by doing that and I thought, going into being sober and alcohol-free, I'm gonna feel so deprived and honestly, I realized much later on but I was really depriving myself by doing something that didn't feel like what I wanted to do. I didn't want to just have a little bit and I wanted to blame myself. While other people can do that, well, not me.

Deb:

Yeah, well, okay, why do you think midlife is so essential to go all in on lifestyle, alcohol-free living.

Lori:

Going all in in midlife. I mean, I think it's essential in midlife. It doesn't matter how long you've been drinking. If we're doing something that doesn't feel right for us and we are working really hard to make it right you know, especially when it comes to alcohol, man, it's just knocking us down and we get to this stage in life. You know we've got other successes in our lives. We're doing things, we have families, we've got all kinds of stuff going on and we cannot get this drinking to where we could just be happy in life and move forward while we're still drinking. And there are so many women who have been, like I said, you know, going back and forth with us for decades trying to figure out you know, how can I make this work? Do I need to quit? I take breaks. You know all of it. And then there's a few you know it really ticked up during COVID, you know, and so just for a few years. Yeah, deb's raising her hand.

Deb:

I was one.

Lori:

Yep, I'm raising my hands, yes, yeah, yeah. And so whatever I mean, we saw during that time, it's okay to drink, everybody's drinking. Drink at nine o'clock in the morning, have alcohol delivered to you, you know, and you get to the stage of life and you're like that just doesn't feel right for me. Everybody else is doing it. So I feel like we're completely out of alignment and disconnected from what we really want to do. And as we get older, we have so many more opportunities and choices to do those things. You know. And, man, if we keep alcohol like it's, like a thumb, it just keeps us down and it makes us feel, especially when we can't manage it the way we think that we should, you know, one or two glasses at a time, it just makes us feel really bad about ourselves and in midlife it's time to do different things, isn't it?

Deb:

Isn't it right? This is our time. We're just now, we're just getting started, right? Like you said, we've got time to do things we've been wanting to do, right, and it's like, okay, let's go. But like that, yeah, alcohol is the thumb that's a really good description. It's the thumb holding us down.

Lori:

Absolutely, and I knew what drinking was like. 30 years of drinking, I knew what it was like. I had an idea of what I was venturing into, and at the time I stopped drinking, there was not the you know these wonderful podcasts that talk about the benefits and all of the great stuff about going alcohol-free. There was none of that back then, and so I went into a loan and I thought, well, you know I'm going into this with, really in hindsight, it was a negative mindset. It was everything that I was going to miss out on, how my life was going to change for the worse, not the better. And I realized, man, what I had been doing for such a long time was not making my life any better. It was really keeping it at that level that I started with.

Lori:

It's like I started at 14 telling myself you have to drink because you're anxious. You have to drink to have more confidence. I didn't know what it felt like. I didn't even know who I was when I stopped drinking, and that's why I think it's essential at this time of life, and it's like you're giving yourself another chapter or two or three or four, like I had written the same story over and over again, I knew what alcohol was going to lead me to if I kept drinking. And man, in the last 10 years I mean I wouldn't be here with you if I hadn't stopped.

Deb:

Yeah, what positive things have come into your life in the last decade. Like what good things right have come into your life that never would have come into your life if you were still stuck in that chapter, the old chapters.

Lori:

So many Trusting myself, honoring myself, never, never. I always did what other people were doing. You know, when I started drinking in high school, it was really popular. I had a lot of friends. I always had a lot of friends in my 20s, you know. But I really was that gal that didn't have that confidence in herself and I used alcohol for confidence. I always wanted to be somebody who is more confident, but I just, you know, I wasn't allowing myself to do the hard stuff, and so that when I quit drinking, oh my gosh, I learned how to trust myself, how to keep my word to myself, and that, in turn, builds more confidence in myself. I would have missed out on all of that for sure. I mean, there's a ton of different things that have happened in the last 10 years, but I think that is the main thing, because I believe that at the stage of life, it's so important for us to have a better, stronger, deeper relationship with ourselves.

Deb:

So true, so true, and to trust ourselves. And that, and the longer you go you keep building those reps. You know, you keep like, like living it out, and it just gets your confidence, gets stronger and you keep, you can trust yourself again you know right.

Deb:

Yeah, the same, dragging around a U-Haul of shame, you know, and not trusting myself, looking myself in the mirror in the morning like you did it again. You said you were just going to have one. I did it again. You know. Such a good feeling now to wake up without that. Yeah.

Lori:

And it's such a horrible feeling to do that I couldn't even look in mirrors. I avoided it at all costs. We think it's us, it's alcohol. It's alcohol. It's like period. It's alcohol. It's keeping you down.

Deb:

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Deb:

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Deb:

With Giesen 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it, and if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story. Are there certain habits that help you stay sober, stay on your alcohol-free journey, or are there certain things that what helps you?

Lori:

Well, the two that I still use today that I started using that journal in May of 2013,. That became a main stay. I was looking for my journal.

Deb:

It's always around me, but it's not right now.

Lori:

Oh yeah, my journal, not every day now, but at least four times, five times a week. I'm not as journaling. Back then when I quit drinking, I had to do it every single day, multiple times throughout the day. I was just getting out my feelings when we were holding everything in that was making it so much more difficult because I wanted to drink. I thought I wasn't ready to talk even to my husband, and my husband and I are very close. We have a great relationship and it's gotten better since I stopped drinking. I will say that when we're keeping everything in, yeah, I wanted to write it out. That just helped. I wrote notes to myself. I think I have about 12 notes where I would write like a note and I would fold it up. They're in this journal. I could see the progression in the friendship that I was building with myself and the way I was cheering for myself. That is where I could see the most progress for sure. Then I had to continue to get those feelings out and those emotions out and all the frustration and the anger and the resentment and everything I was feeling.

Lori:

That first year, for sure, I got a gym membership. Then I went to the gym. I was very sedentary for so many years and very inconsistent with exercise. I thought exercise was you got to do it to be skinny. Then I realized, boy, in that first year of sobriety, oh, I need to do it for my anxiety, I need to do it to boost my mood. That clicked. Today I have to at least exercise intentionally five times a week. It's just really okay.

Deb:

That's what helps me. You have a gym membership and you use it.

Lori:

I like so much? Yes, definitely. Where I live now, we have two big gyms. I can choose between them. It's included in everything we pay. I'm going, I have to go, I'm going. It's a lot easier. I think it's really important to look at the habits that are keeping you drinking and notice. Okay, for me it was anxiety, anxiety and just feeling my feelings without expressing them. That's why I turned to that habit for journaling. I'm like, oh, okay, well, I need to let these out. How can I do it? Journaling and then going to the gym. I used to listen to Eminem because I thought this kid could get sober. I can do it too. I would put my earbuds in and I'd go in this spin room when they weren't having classes. It was dark and they had a big screen where you were touring Italy on your bike. I would spin and cry and listen to Eminem and just let it out, let it out, let it out.

Deb:

I love that. I love what you shared, that you wrote yourself notes in your journal, like getting out all your feelings, but also learning to cheer for yourself and encourage yourself. We have to be cheering for ourselves. I love to cheer for other people, but am I cheering for myself? That's beautiful. Really is beautiful.

Lori:

Especially too. Back then my husband was super proud of me and at the time my son was 12 and he was really proud of me. None of my friends understood, even though they loved me and everything, nobody was asking me. Family members, nobody wanted to talk about it, nobody was saying I'm proud of you. That's where we got to remember we don't have to have people on board with what we want to do, especially if it's going alcohol free. We got to learn to get in the habit of cheering for ourselves and being kind to ourselves. It sounds corny? No, it doesn't.

Deb:

It doesn't, but it's so important what we say when we talk to ourselves. Right, we talk to ourselves all day long. So am I kind to myself when I speak to myself? You know, not always I feel like I'm very kind to other people, but I'm not always kind when I talk to myself.

Lori:

It's the practice of being a friend to yourself. It is the practice. Dr Kristin Neff talks about this. She is a self-compassion expert and she talks about you know how do you treat a friend? How would you treat a friend? You've got to really stop yourself in those moments of, you know, being the mean girl or the mean guy and just say would I talk to somebody that I love this way?

Deb:

Right, no, no, no, yeah. Bump into something like I'm an idiot, you know? No, I'm not. I'm actually not. You know, that's not true. Yeah, that's not true. Let's change. Let's change how I'm talking to myself. That's very good, okay. So when you're not drinking which has been the last 10 years are there non-alcoholic drinks that you enjoy? Is there anything? I know you're not like super into mocktails or whatever, but are there non-alcoholic wines or beers? What do you reach for when you're going out? What's your favorite thing to drink which is fine? If it's just like a perrier, it's fine. Yeah, is that your Stanley? Do you have a Stanley? No, it's a foe.

Lori:

Stanley A foe.

Deb:

Stanley.

Lori:

It's a foe, stanley, and it doesn't leave this house. I refuse to walk around with one of these things. I will knock somebody out.

Deb:

Is it hilarious? Yeah, it's hilarious. What is going on?

Lori:

I think it was like $23 on Amazon. Yeah, it's very pretty, very pretty, I feel. This thing up it's 40 ounces. So I mean I sip on this all day. I'm not crazy with water, like I used to drink like boatloads of water, but then I count my coffee in the morning, of course, and then my thing right now.

Lori:

Okay, I will tell you so, when I stopped drinking, I did the faux champagne on my first Christmas, so that was four months into sobriety and I was so mad that I couldn't have the real stuff. And my sister was drinking the real stuff and I'm like, okay, that's not going to work for me, because I was just feeling I remember I went in the bathroom and cried Like, oh gosh, this is not going to work because I am somebody who really enjoys the taste. I can still taste it to this day if I let myself go there. So I don't drink any of the non-alcoholic stuff. And I know that we talked about this on my podcast, because a lot of people will say you know what that just makes me want the real stuff. I am that person. So I'm very basic, very basic. But right now what I'm loving is the little mini cans of Coke Zero and I either drink Diet Coke or Coke Zero.

Deb:

Oh yeah, the two little cans, little baby cans.

Lori:

They're so cute, they're so cute and that's a treat. I treat myself with one in the afternoon. I used to say to myself it's so funny like, well, you shouldn't drink Diet Coke. Diet Coke's bad for you. And I had always been like a Diet Coke drinker. I used to drink Tab back in the day. I love Tab. And then I would say, luri, my goodness, you drink alcohol. Everything you can get your hands on you drink. You could have a Coke Zero. And this was just like maybe last year I was having this conversation with myself, yeah.

Deb:

I love it. It's like one little baby can is OK, it's OK. Yeah, not a doctor, but I mean it's like whatever One can is a lot better than the wine I was drinking. Yeah, it was a lot better. It's a lot better than all the wine I was drinking. Yes, the toxins in there, yes, you know what. I think it's really good. I appreciate that you say that it's like it makes you want the real thing, you know, having an alcohol-free drink. Because and I always want people to know that like mocktails are not for everyone, alcohol-free beers are not for. I mean, definitely, if it's a trigger, please do not do it Like it's. You don't have to be drinking mocktails just to be sober, be alcohol-free. So I really appreciate that.

Lori:

Yeah, Deb, when I found your Instagram account and I started watching you make all the drinks and all of the ingredients that you've had and everything, I'm like holy cow, this is fantastic. People need to know about you and I mean a lot of people already knew about you on Instagram, but I'm talking about my people, like I need to be over to the podcast because I wanted to have that conversation, because we do feel like, oh, we're going to miss out and, if you can, if you're one of those people who can drink something that is, you know, it almost tastes the same right as alcohol. Oh my gosh, there's so many different things out there right now. When you go to, what is it?

Deb:

Total wine, total wine. I have total wine by me. I mean they have like three now. They have three shelves now with non-alcoholic options and I'm sure it'll just keep growing. I mean it's going to be a whole aisle. I'm sure by the time I'm done with all this, put me in the ground, yeah.

Lori:

Definitely, definitely. It's so helpful what you're doing out there because it's showing people that there are other options and not everybody feels the same way like I do, as far as you know, feeling like I want the real stuff, and we need those options, especially in midlife, as we get older. Alcohol and drinking is one option and that is the reason why, if you go all in, you're going to totally remove the time and the worry about your drinking, the bargaining with yourself. You're going to remove that and you're going to be able to open the door to other possibilities and options, including mocktails.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah. Or realize this is not for me and go. You know what? I'm going to lean into other things. I'm going to go all in on other things. Yeah, because I definitely don't want to do it if it doesn't work for you. Yeah, okay. Any advice that you would give to somebody in their midlife like us, just starting Ladies, just getting started, ladies and men and women who are thinking maybe about you know, maybe they're window shopping sobriety and maybe they're just on dry January. Any advice you would give to them?

Lori:

Well, congratulations. If you're at that point, it's huge and I think you should be proud of yourself for being there. You know, when I say go all in, it's this mindset shift of I don't drink versus I'm trying not to drink. That's what I focus on with the women that I work with. But I add today.

Lori:

On the end of that, I don't drink today or I'm not drinking today, all we can do is take it moment by moment, because in the beginning it feels moment by moment, and continue to practice daily and don't get too far ahead of yourself. I mean, honestly, there's a lot of pressure out there and as women and I know men too, but as women and this stage of life where we have so many pressures, and then also we're at this place where we're letting go of a lot of things, and so just be really kind to yourself and be patient, because there's no perfect way to do this. It's not linear, and every single day you show up for yourself and you say I'm not drinking today. What is that going to look like? What am I going to do instead? And then the other thing that I would say write it down, document it, because then you can go back and look at it.

Deb:

And realize how far you've come. Yeah, I don't think we realize you know. Yeah, don't realize how far we've come. Yeah, I took pictures. In the very beginning I took, like I did literally have a photo of like day one, day two. I mean like I have a little signboard or whatever I used to. I did day one, day two for like the first almost 30 days or so, and to look back at just even, like I remember day nine, I remember that day was such a hard day but it was like OK, one more day, like just get through today. I think that's the perfect advice you just gave. I mean, just I am not drinking today, not making a declaration forever right now. What am I doing right now? You're not drinking, I'm not drinking right now, go all in daily, like it does not.

Lori:

It does not equal forever or it does not. The definition is not forever, it's daily. But, deb, I love that you did that and that is something that I truly wish I would have done to see the actual progress.

Deb:

Yeah, I wish I had journaled like you did. Yeah, yeah, but you do you can go back and look at that and remember it in a way that if we don't document it somehow it just you know it's like oh, it's always been this way, it hasn't always been this way. Like it was very hard. No, it was very hard. I wanted to lay down on the aisle in front of the Chardonnay. I literally saw I was walking. I was like I just want to lay down and flail around like I miss you.

Lori:

It's so stupid? No, it's not. It's okay to feel that way and I love that you say that, because people need to hear that. It's like we think that you know we hear people's stories and that they've gotten to the other side of this. But you know, if we're not forthcoming with what it really felt like and oh my gosh, I would love to have heard somebody say that back when I stopped drinking, I wasn't listening to podcasts, but I will tell you, every time I went into Trader Joe's and didn't buy wine, I would be at the cash register, like thinking telepathically to the guy at the cashier or the gal. It's like, do you know how hard this has been for me? Like, can somebody give me some credit? That's why we got to give ourselves credit.

Deb:

We have to. That's so good, lori, you are wonderful. I just love you, thank you. Thank you for coming on today, thank you for all that you shared and just for everything that you continue to pour out into the sober community with your work and your podcast. 250 and beyond. Make sure everybody follows along. And then, where are you on social? Are you on social? Where can they find? Where can the people find you?

Lori:

Where are you hiding I?

Deb:

tried to find you. I couldn't find you.

Lori:

I mean, I gotta do something about that. Honestly, I got to get back on Instagram. I used to love. I'm coming back. I used to love Instagram and it just like I always get down to and you know, I'm 56 years old. So I'm at this point where I'm questioning everything and it's like is this where I want to spend my time, because I'm not that responsible with my phone in my hand and you know I just worry about that. I will be back on Instagram. The best place to find me is loriamassicutcom. That's my website and you can reach out to me, you can join my email community and then 250 and beyond. I show up there every Wednesday ish. Now I've been doing pretty good. I've been doing that for almost six years, six years in February. So wow, oh good.

Deb:

Happy birthday to your podcast. That's huge. Six years is huge.

Lori:

You know how much work it is right Dan.

Deb:

Yes, it's so fun. It is so fun. But yes, there is work that goes into editing and publishing and show notes and then remembering to post about what you've just done. I mean, it's just, it's a lot, but it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun, yes, but yeah, we'll make sure that you're not in the witness protection program anymore, for your work.

Lori:

Okay, thank you, thank you so much.

Deb:

You are a joy and I am so happy we got to chat today.

Lori:

So thank you for being my guest Me too. Thank you, Debbie.

Deb:

Big time cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol Free podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.