Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 88 Launching America’s First Non-Alcoholic Bottle Shop With Victoria Watters

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 88

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Grab your favorite mocktail and join me for an inspiring chat with Victoria Watters, co-founder of Dry Atlas and creator of America’s first NA bottle shop, Spirited Away. Victoria shares how she launched this game-changing business during the pandemic and how Dry Atlas is now tracking 1,500+ NA products globally!

We dive into why education and resources matter in this growing space, explore Dry Atlas’s product reviews and founder story, and tackle the “mocktail” debate—Is it time for a new term, or is it still the best way to describe these drinks? 

Victoria also shares her tips for making NA options part of everyday life, including her favorites for moderation, like non-alcoholic beer and wine. Plus, we talk about the rise of sophisticated zero-proof drinks that go beyond imitations, with brands like Pathfinder offering adventurous flavors. This episode is packed with practical tips and inspiration for your alcohol-free journey, so tune in to hear more!


Get in touch with Victoria!
The Dry Atlas: Website | Instagram | TikTok

Spirited Away: Website | Instagram

Order a copy of The Happiest Hour: Delicious Mocktails for a Fabulous Moms' Night In

A huge thank you to the sponsors of the Thriving Alcohol-Free podcast!
Sunnyside | Giesen 0% Wines

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Deb:

B up, friends and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, Deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Okay, hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free. I'm so happy you're here. I am thrilled today in the house.

Deb:

If you are not following the Dry Atlas, you need to follow them immediately on Instagram. The Dry Atlas is their Instagram handle. I have Victoria Watters. Am I saying it right? Yes, you got it. I should have asked you before we started recording. So, victoria Watters, who is co-founder of the Dry Atlas, I'm going to read her bio for you so you know a little bit about her. But, victoria, I'm so happy that you are here. It is so. It's just a joy to meet you really. I feel like we have so many connections in the space, so it's really really nice to connect with you personally.

Victoria:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited about this conversation.

Deb:

So fun. Okay, let's tell everybody. Well, first of all, your website is thedryatlascom, but I'm going to read your bio because I mess everything up, so hopefully I can just read it clearly loud and proud here. Victoria Watters is co-founder of Dry Atlas, the media company focused on alcohol alternatives with a mission to demystify and expand this new category. The Dry Atlas reaches over 250,000 consumers monthly and provides resources to help non-alcoholic brands grow. I love it. Prior to Dry Atlas, Victoria and her husband Douglas opened Spirited Away, America's first non-alcoholic bottle shop. That's amazing. Before her entrepreneurial ventures, she spent one decade as a brand and content marketer in New York City. So welcome, welcome, Victoria. So happy you're here.

Victoria:

Thanks again for having me. I have so much respect for all the content you've been putting out, and this space needs more education and amplification. So the more the merrier. Thank you I appreciate that.

Deb:

Yeah, I just feel like. I feel like in some ways I'm a little bit of a welcome mat. You know like come on in. You know like there's fun things to drink, there's good things here, and you know the fun is not over just because you know we're not maybe having alcohol that that evening or whatever. So it's really it's been was, it was in the thick of the pandemic, intentionally.

Victoria:

Really. So an opportunistic time to open a brick and retail store in New York. I don't know if we would have taken the risk had it not been for some COVID deals on those retail rents. But at the same time COVID was a big impetus for us to revisit our own alcohol habits. My husband is from the South, where you know there's a big cocktail culture, and in COVID he was making us a nightly alcoholic cocktail and a couple nights in a row of that you're not feeling so great at work or at the computer, rather the next day. So he and I during COVID were seeking out alternatives to alcohol. Some of the early brands were available direct to consumer, but we didn't find a space where you could actually browse and learn from somebody who knows about the category and decided to start our own in Spirited Away, which we still own and operate today in Manhattan.

Deb:

I want to come to Manhattan. I would love to come to Spirited Away. I would love to get out there.

Victoria:

Please do. We're open every day. We've got free tastings. It's a great spot to try emerging brands. Even if you're deep in this space, I think you'll still find something new to enjoy.

Deb:

I feel like there's so many right Like how much? Because I stopped drinking. My very first day alcohol-free was December 31st 2020. So just all the brands that have come out since, just in the last couple of years? Right, you can't keep up, even when you're in the space. Do you feel that? Do you feel overwhelmed on all the new brands?

Victoria:

Yeah, and if I do, I'm sure consumers are and that's part of what we decided to do both with Spirited Away as a store and Dry Atlas as a media company. When we opened Spirited Away's doors, we probably had two or three dozen products from a smaller number of brands, and now at the store we stock over 230 products and that's been quite selective. And then within Dry Atlas we keep track of the entire non-alcoholic spirit wine beer universe and we're clocking over 1,500 products available globally now. So every day literally, there's something new to be aware of. Even being in the business of non-alcoholic media, it's almost difficult to stay on top of it all, which is great news for consumers to have that optionality.

Deb:

That's true, isn't that so true? Right, there's, there is something for everybody. Whatever you're looking for, whatever taste you're looking for, yes, okay, your Instagram feed for Dry Atlas is just phenomenal. I love the category like reviews that you give, Like I know, recently you did one on, like you know, non-alcoholic tequilas and the different options and what their flavor profiles are. It's so helpful to have that. And then even like founder stories, you have recipes and you just have a very fun, playful way of providing so much value, so much value to people who are scrolling the scrollers.

Victoria:

Well, thank you for the kind words. We try to keep it, on social media in particular, as engaging and positive as possible, while I do live a predominantly alcohol-free life. We're coming to this more from the perspective of here's what you gain in terms of flavor or how much better you'll feel. So we're hoping that that comes through to the consumer and to the curious consumer, for whom Dry Atlas might be their entry point to the broader category, and I'm sure you see that as well with your content platform.

Deb:

Totally, totally. I feel like right, like if you're just taking a drink, you know taking the weekend off, or you're taking the week off or a challenge, or whatever you know. I just love that there are so many options for people to drink wherever they are and they're, you know, exploring if they're sober curious. I was certainly sober curious for a long, long time. A long long time. I did a lot of window shopping of sobriety on my Instagram feed. So you guys are a great window to stop at, for sure, and everybody should sign up for your newsletter, which comes out what every Wednesday.

Victoria:

Every Wednesday our free newsletter. You can find it on dryatlascom or linked in our Instagram profile. We feature news, insights and recommendations every week. So whether you're brand new to the space, already deeply entrenched, or are on the more business side of it, there's something for everyone.

Deb:

It's fantastic, it's so fantastic. Okay, all right, can we talk about the word? I know this is something you featured on your Instagram the debate on the word mocktail, because having my Instagram as mocktail mom or whatever, I certainly hear it. You know, like people are like a little. You know some people like get a little offended like mocktail, like it's some less than, and I'm like it's just, it's an easy for me, it's like, it's an easy word everybody understands. But what do you find in the debate space about the word mocktail?

Victoria:

Well, it's interesting there are such strong opinions on this topic, which, on the one hand, might surprise you, but on the other, it does make sense, in that we are building a new category. It's important, I think, the words we use not only for clarity but also to get new consumers excited about it. I'm in your camp on the mocktail word. I think from my perspective it's clear. It's pithy, it's easy to remember, it's not a mouthful such as zero-proof cocktails, and I think that it's our job as content creators, as media companies, as well as the brand's jobs, to illustrate what mocktail means today versus what it might have meant in the early 2000s or more recently, frankly.

Victoria:

So I'd like to elevate the word mocktail to show that it's not just orange juice and some syrup. At the same time, I do see the debate on the other side that's saying hey, let's just call this all cocktails and let's be clear about ABV levels, that's, alcohol by volume. For those who aren't familiar and a lot aren't familiar with what 12 ABV means versus 20. So I would say, maybe on menus it can make sense to have everything grouped together under cocktails and be really clear as to what is zero or 0.5 ABV. But mocktails is catchy, and I'm just here to show people that mocktails aren't the mocktails of the past, so true.

Deb:

So true, right, we're so beyond a Shirley Temple, right, and no duels. Yes, nothing against either of those two wonderful things that I guess started things off, you know. But yeah, it has changed so much. But yeah, on menus it's nice to have, you know, if you have, maybe even if they have like a non-alcoholic cocktail section, right, but yeah, but to have the ABV on there. But then maybe some mocktails that have no non-alcoholic spirits in it, you know, just a spritz or something that doesn't have any alcohol free spirits in it. But definitely that mocktail word is, people know Exactly.

Victoria:

They know. Exactly, that's a big benefit. Exactly, they know.

Deb:

Exactly, that's a big benefit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it makes it so much better. Yes, okay. So what tips and tricks do you have or what tips would you recommend for somebody who's maybe trying to incorporate non-alcoholic options into their lifestyle?

Victoria:

Well, I would say, first of all, they're on the right track. If you are revisiting your alcohol consumption for any reason, whether it's temporarily or longer term, having alternatives on hand is important, and that's not just because I love the category. Some interesting research came out of Japan in the past few months that showed, for those who are looking to moderate their alcohol consumption, having those alternatives that aren't just a Coca-Cola or a seltzer, but rather a non-alcoholic beer, non-alcoholic wine, having those alternatives that aren't just a Coca-Cola or a seltzer, but rather a non-alcoholic beer, non-alcoholic wine, having those on hand actually increase significantly your ability to continue on that moderation goal, if that is what you're working on. So first of all, I would say test and try and find something that you love. Maybe if you tried a non-alcoholic wine that didn't sit right, maybe go over to the beer category. You're more likely to find something that meets your taste expectations there. Maybe if you have a favorite cocktail, experiment with different non-alcoholic spirits. Or maybe go lower ABV with swapping out one of the alcoholic ingredients if that's helpful.

Victoria:

And I would say, for those who are really looking to moderate their alcohol intake, I'm a big fan of platforms like Sunnyside. That's a mindful drinking app that, in a no judgment way, lets you track your consumption more, just like you would track any other health activity or perhaps what you're eating. So there are a lot of ways to actively work on moderation. If that's for you, I would say for those who are just curious about the food and beverage space, you don't necessarily need to come from a moderation angle.

Victoria:

If you're just excited about what's new in beverage, I would point you to what some are calling the gastronomic beverages of the world. So these are beverages that aren't trying to replicate exactly an alcoholic counterpart, but rather are really defining a new level of sophistication for beverages that just happen to be non-alcoholic or alcohol-free. So, for example, brands like Murray out of Denmark are great to look into Acidly proxies. These are things that can stand on their own in those typically alcohol consumption occasions, but they're not trying to necessarily mimic something that you've had before, and I think that can be exciting for someone who's looking for something new.

Deb:

Very much so, would you say. Pathfinder would be something in that category.

Victoria:

Oh yeah, huge fan of Pathfinder. I'm glad you brought that up because since day one at the store it's products like those that have really captured the hearts and minds of our top customers. I think anything novel we call those novel spirits here at Dry Atlas and I think anything novel is really, really interesting for the consumer because you're not coming in with an expectation to be met of I know what red wine is or I know what tequila is and does this need it. It's an entirely new flavor journey and something like the Pathfinder. It's no surprise to me the cult following that they have in New York City and beyond.

Deb:

I love that. Yeah, yeah, I like that. The novel spirits novel spirits I haven't heard that term. Is that something you guys came up with, or that's a term I just haven't ever heard before?

Victoria:

Well, I would have to credit it to Douglas, my husband. Okay, we've been using novel spirits as a category for spirited away since we opened the store. What we typically say are spirit alternatives to mean, okay, it's a tequila or a gin-like substance. But then I think novel spirits just shows you hey, this is going to be sophisticated, but we can't quite compare it to anything you might've tried before.

Deb:

Yep, it's not a one-to-one. Yeah, you're not looking at replacing that flavor. Okay, some of you know that I accidentally stopped drinking when I did a challenge to take a month off from alcohol, my BFF Chardonnay. And now I live an alcohol-free lifestyle and I absolutely love it. But I also realized that's not for everybody. Originally my goal was just to moderate. I wanted to learn how to moderate. So you might be thinking I would love to cut back a bit, but I am not ready to quit cold turkey, so you don't have to. I have a little tip for you. It's called Sunnyside. It's the number one alcohol moderation app in the United States and maybe it would be a fit for you if you're looking for no pressure, just if you're looking for no pressure, just support and tools to help you actually drink less. With Sunnyside, you set your own pace, track your drinks and connect with a community of people who get it. You pick a plan that fits your goals and, the best part, 96% of people who use Sunnyside drink less after just 90 days. That's huge. So if you're ready to cut back your drinking without feeling overwhelmed, maybe give Sunnyside a shot. Visit the link in the show notes to get a free 15 day trial and check out Sunnyside for yourself.

Deb:

As you guys know, I love Giesen 0% wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis, but they recently launched a delicious sparkling brute 0%, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Giesen as the exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. Giesen's 0% wines are created through the magic of advanced spinning cone technology to remove the alcohol from their full-leaded wines. The award-winning winemaker Duncan Shuler and his team have done wonders in Marlborough, new Zealand, by creating an entire family of 0% wines with all the flavor and deliciousness you expect from traditional quote full-leaded wine. Their non-alcoholic wines maintain the aroma in the body to create a low-calorie wine that never contains more than 0.5 ABV.

Deb:

Globally available, look for Giesen 0% wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the sparkling Brut 0%, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration. My personal favorite although I do love them all is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle. And, not to be missed, the other members of their 0% family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rosé, the Pinot Gris. With Giesen's 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it and if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story.

Deb:

I love the Japanese study that you quoted, because I have definitely found that's what has kept me on my alcohol-free journey is having those non-alcoholic options, is having non-alcoholic wines and the non-alcoholic beers, which I wasn't even a beer drinker and now I drink. Go Brewing and Athletic and I love it. It's like what is going on. There's so many good things, so many good things to drink. So, yeah, I love that. There's okay. There's a good study out there to prove what's worked.

Victoria:

Yeah, and what's great news for people today. Four years ago you could order direct to consumer. If you were lucky to live in New York, you could come to Spirited Away. But today, continue trying if they haven't yet found that one go-to flavor. For me, it took some time, especially within the wine category, to find my go-tos, but I'm so glad that I kept trying.

Deb:

Kept trying. Yeah, it's like okay, they're not all just grape juice in a wine bottle. Yeah.

Victoria:

Exactly.

Deb:

Yeah, okay, so do you have? I'm sure you do, and I don't want to like have you call out specific brands if you don't want to, but are there certain ones that you absolutely love? Or what have you started gravitating towards in the non-alcoholic wines? Sure so.

Victoria:

I will call out brands because I do feel very passionate about two in particular. The first is Oceano Zero. The founder, rachel Martin, is just an absolute gem. She's a longtime traditional wine producer who has since pivoted her winery to focus on non-alcoholic options, so it is a single vintage wine from the California coast. From that perspective it's important because some non-alcoholic wines are really just bulk wines that are de-alcoholized, which can be great, and they come at a lower price point and they can scratch that itch. But something like Oceano Zero really has that craft of traditional winemaking behind it and a lot of the things that we appreciate, like terroir about alcoholic wines, just in a non-alcoholic format.

Victoria:

So I'm a huge fan of Rachel Martin and what she's done with Oceano Zero. I highly recommend everyone check out the interview we did with her recently at Dry Atlas and if you can get your hands on some Oceano Zero, it's definitely worth trying, and then I would say, at a slightly more premium price point, but worth it. I would put Zeronimo from Austria. So this is a new brand. Have you tried it?

Deb:

Okay, I tried the red. I have a bottle of the sparkling white. I'm waiting to try it because Josh James, the importer, he and I are going to do an Instagram live together, I think, next week, and so we're actually I'm going to taste it with him on Instagram. But the red is unbelievable.

Victoria:

It is unbelievable and I think, especially for someone like yourself who's probably tried a lot in the category, you kind of know what to expect. Coming in with the non-alcoholic wines, it's very difficult on a technical level to replicate exactly the alcoholic experience with wines versus beers, and that is for reasons I won't get into. But we've written about it before. If you're curious, zeronimo has somehow cracked this code with their Still Red. I had it actually just last night. I'm visiting my parents and my parents, who are in their 70s and 80s, could not believe on the nose that it was non-alcoholic and through the entire drinking experience it really matches what you're looking for from a Still Red. So I love that team as well.

Victoria:

It's a similar story to Oceano Zero, where it is a family winery that also produces alcoholic variants, but they're seeing where the direction of consumption habits are going and it's really interesting, hard to ignore that more and more consumers are really reaching for non-alcoholic options and it's a great way to stay in business, I would say, in the long term for these family wineries. So I hope to see more like Oceano Zero and Zeronimo. You'll see, the quality is there and the experience is there, so worth the premium price points. But again, I like a kind of mass consumer product wine that you can find at Target. It'll scratch the itch a little bit, but for a special occasion it's Oceano Zero and Geronimo for sure.

Deb:

I love it. Geronimo, I think I was totally saying it wrong. I was like zero Nemo. You know a lot of these things how do you say it, Is it?

Victoria:

Geronimo. That's so cute. I think it's Geronimo as a play of Geronimo. But I think I'm correct. I'm sure you are. I say everything wrong.

Deb:

Victoria, I say everything wrong. Like Shirley, the non-alcoholic wine I used to call it Surly, like I said everything wrong. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, geisen. I called him Geisen forever, so if somebody's going to mess up the name, it would be me. So I'm sure you have it right, zeronimo, but I'm super excited to try the sparkling white. Have you tried that one?

Victoria:

Yes, I have and I actually just sent that. A friend of mine is pregnant with twins so the first thing I did was send her the Zeronimo sparkling, actually via Josh. I love what he's doing, helping to distribute that in the States, and he came and did a Zeronimo tasting at Spirited Away and just to see him in action and his passion and his level of expertise comes through. That's what we love doing both with the store, and Dry Atlas is really giving a platform to these experts, to Rachel and to Katya at Zeronimo to tell their story. They're the experts and we just want to share with consumers what makes these products special.

Deb:

Yeah, I love that. So it's Katya. She's the winemaker for Zeronimo.

Victoria:

Yeah she's married into the winemaking family I believe a second generation winemakers and she was the one who led the charge, advocating with her husband saying hey, let's do something a little differently. And that comes from her personal experience having been pregnant so of course not imbibing as usual and really missing that wine experience and I think she's really nailed it with what she's created.

Deb:

Wow, yeah, hit the ball in the park, yeah, and is it like $30 range, I feel like, for the so?

Victoria:

Geronimo is going to be, I would say, one of the more premium products on the market. So their half bottle is $38 and your full bottle runs at $70. So this is not an every Thursday night kind of thing. For me it's a perfect special occasion or gifting product. Oceano Zero is premium but a little bit less expensive. So to me that's what I would reach for more from that perspective. But I would say the price really reflects the quality for both brands with what they're starting with. Zeronimo, in particular, starts with a 98-point wine that they then de-alkalize, which I believe they were the first in the world to do that, and you can imagine producers being wary to do that because if you don't get it right, you've really wasted a very valuable product base.

Deb:

That's very true, boy. That's very true. Okay, very exciting, isn't it exciting how the non-alcoholic wine space continues to just evolve and get better and better. For us, I feel like we're like kids in candy stores, with all the good things there are to drink, right?

Victoria:

Yes, Really. If you're looking to moderate your alcohol consumption or just explore new flavors, now is the time.

Deb:

Now is definitely the time Totally. What's been the most fun thing for you and your husband starting Dry Atlas? What's been the best part of starting this? Because taking spirited away and then now starting this media company?

Victoria:

Yeah, it's very different from running a brick and mortar store. I would say the best thing. We were so fortunate to be able to run Dry Atlas remotely and actually travel around the world for about 14 months, visiting producers and other industry experts across Europe and Asia, so really just a once-in-a-lifetime experience to be able to spend so much time in different countries. I believe it was over a dozen countries we visited. We met with the Murray team in their factory in Copenhagen. We met with some amazing premium tea producers in Hong Kong and Japan scientists, chemists, brand marketers, everything in between and I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything. So we did a global tour to kick off Dry Atlas, working from every spot but really focusing on immersing ourselves in what's going on beyond the immediate US market, because there's a lot of innovation happening outside of our home country.

Deb:

Isn't that so true, so true. So when was that that you were on your world tour?

Victoria:

We left in June of 2023, which was the month that we launched Dry Atlas and we are now just settling back in to the States. So we've done over a year of travel and working and meeting some really fascinating people in the space.

Deb:

What an adventure. I had no idea what an adventure. That's incredible it was a lot of fun and a lot of work, but a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yes, are you experts on packing? Now on, like, do you have? Do you travel with like small are you?

Deb:

you're a good packer oh yes, and we lived out of carry-on bags for the 14 months, so that was a challenge, but we we made it work so okay, when you go to visit these locations and Murray's like, oh, and here's all your samples and here's the tea to take home from Hong Kong, are you then shipping it all home? You can't pack it to take home. We consumed everything on premise Did you really You're like we can't take it with us?

Victoria:

Yeah, we're just here, Some half-sampled bottles behind but for the most part we tried everything while we were there and really enjoyed moving on to new destinations and seeing what was waiting for us.

Deb:

Absolutely incredible, really so incredible. Okay, so, when you're out and about now, back in the States now, and let's say you go into a restaurant and they don't have a mocktail on the menu or they don't have a non-alcoholic option, is there something in particular that you tend to lean towards ordering, or what do you like to order?

Victoria:

Yes, I would say for those who aren't strictly alcohol-free. I love a bitters and soda, so bitters themselves are quite alcoholic. You're using just a few drops or dashes, so the overall drink will be well under the non-alcoholic designation. But I did want to note for listeners it does contain trace amounts of alcohol, similar to vanilla extract. Most bars will have traditional what are called Angostura bitters and a bitters and soda heavy on the bitters with nice juicy lime. That'll scratch the cocktail itch for me.

Victoria:

Some of my friends and I've done this before will actually bring their own bitters to the bar or restaurant. It's a little cheeky and probably the etiquette experts are going to raise a flag there. I did just go to a charity event over the weekend and I brought my own bitters. I brought Ben Branson Season Dark with me just in case they didn't have a non-alcoholic option, but they did have athletic beer. So it's a nice little backup too if you just want to have a little tincture of bitters in your bag. But a bitters and soda you can't go wrong. And then I would also encourage ask and see what's off menu. Oftentimes even the non-alcoholic beers will be off menu. So many times in New York City I'll say do you have any non-alcoholic beers and they'll pull an ice cold athletic from the fridge and it's just not on the menu.

Deb:

Okay, that's really good to know. Yeah and right, I'm with you. Like, bring you know, bring a little bitters in your purse or a little something you know to add to some sparkling water. Make your kind of, make your own mocktail, you know, discreetly. But at the same time it's like if there's not an option, it's nice. Do you want to have that? You're included in the fun.

Victoria:

Exactly that. And I would also add depending on how busy the spot is or if you're working with a bartender who looks to have a free minute or two, a lot of them are really excited to make you something creative. And if you're really looking for that non-alcoholic tequila to be added and they don't have it, you'll probably not have your expectations met. But if the alternative is just a seltzer water, see if they can recommend something and just give them a profile, say you know, I want spicy not sweet. Often, if you ask for spicy not sweet, you will get a nice mocktail that doesn't remind you of those you know pineapple and cranberry juice concoctions of the mid-2010s that we used to be stuck with.

Deb:

Yes, tgi Fridays, okay. 2010s that we used to be stuck with. Yes, tgi Fridays, okay. I just want to encourage everybody to make sure that they are following you on Instagram. The Dry Atlas is your Instagram handle. They can sign up for your newsletter, which is just packed with information, every Wednesday at thedryatlascom or in your Instagram link link in profile. So, victoria, it is so nice to meet you. I cannot thank you enough for taking time out of your world travels. So welcome back to America. But thank you so much for dropping into Thriving Alcohol Free. I really, really appreciate it. So nice to meet you.

Victoria:

Likewise, and thanks so much for having me. I'm such a fan of yours, so I'm glad our worlds could finally collide.

Deb:

Same same, same same. So all right, big time cheers to you, my friend. Big time cheers to you for tuning into the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others. Post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.