Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 106 Live Q&A with Duncan Shouler, Senior Winemaker at Giesen

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 106

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Ever wondered how a premium non-alcoholic wine is crafted? This week’s episode is a snippet from the recent Mocktail Summit 2025, where I had the pleasure of hosting a Happy Hour with Duncan Shouler, Chief Winemaker at Giesen and a trailblazer in the alcohol-free wine world. (If you want to catch the full summit replay, snag your pass now!)

Duncan shared how Giesen’s journey into NA wines started with a company-wide health initiative and a desire to create an authentic wine experience without the alcohol. Using cutting-edge spinning cone technology, they’ve perfected the art of de-alcoholizing wine while keeping all the flavor, antioxidants, and joy intact.

The listeners also had the chance to ask Duncan their burning questions, allowing him to dive into the challenges and innovations shaping the NA wine market in 2025, their current lineup of zero-percent wines, and get a sneak peek at what’s next for their company. 

This episode is packed with insights from one of the top leaders in the industry - you won’t want to miss it! If you’d like to hear more about Giesen’s story and how Duncan helped bring NA wines to life - head back to Episode 33 of the podcast for a deep dive into their inspiring journey!



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Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide, so sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers. Hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free.

Deb:

How are you? How is your dry January going? We're almost to the end. If you're just doing dry January, you're doing it. I'm so excited for you. I actually just wanted to do a dry January myself. Back about four years ago, in 2021 was my very first dry January, and just wanted to be able to take a break. I wanted to take my foot off the gas of all the wine I was drinking, and I'm never in a million years that I think I would absolutely break up with Chardonnay and start a new alcohol-free lifestyle. But it's been the best thing ever, best decision of my adult life. So I'm just cheering you on. Whether you're just doing Dry January or you're sober, curious or just interested in mocktails, I'm just happy that you were here.

Deb:

So today's actually a very special episode. This is a recording that we've turned into a podcast. This was a happy hour that we did during the Mocktail Summit with the winemaker from Giesen. So what I get asked about the most probably like on Instagram and stuff are questions about non-alcoholic wines. So if you have questions about non-alcoholic wines, this might be a great episode for you, because Duncan Shouler, the winemaker from Giesen, comes in. He came into a happy hour, answered some questions for those who were attending the Mocktail Summit live and, just so you know, you can grab a ticket to the Mocktail Summit and watch the replays. So there's about 18 different mocktail enthusiasts and influencers who came in recorded made mocktails You'd actually get.

Deb:

You'll get a recipe guide. You'll get all the favorites, which I think is like worth its weight in gold. You'll get a PDF, like an ebook, of all the favorites of, like the favorite non-alcoholic spirit, non-alcoholic wine, non-alcoholic beer and ready to drink of all the presenters. So not only do you get to learn to make new mocktails at the Mocktail Summit with a ticket, but you'll actually get some PDFs, some ebooks, some recipe ebooks, and then, as well, you'll get the favorites that all the presenters you know that they, if they could only buy one, they could only buy one. Because you go in the store these days and now there's so many alcohol-free options, it's very overwhelming. Like, where do I start? So this is a nice guide to have to go. Okay, all right, this is what you know, the people who are trying everything. These are their favorites. So I think that was it was people really really liked that at the Mocktail Summit was to have the favorites.

Deb:

So, anyway, if you attended the Mocktail Summit, thank you so much. If I met you on a Zoom, I'm so happy we got to connect. I absolutely love doing the Mocktail Summit and I hope you enjoyed it If you were there. The feedback has just been incredible. So thank you, guys, from the bottom of my heart. My goal is just to encourage you that the fun's not over and there are still good things to drink, and I think the summit is a great way to do that, in January or whenever, whenever you end up watching the videos and stuff. So the mocktail videos. Okay, so here we go.

Deb:

Here is the episode with Duncan Shouler of Giesen. He's down, he's from New Zealand, that's where Giesen is made, but actually when we recorded this he was in a hotel in New York. He was on a USA tour for dry January for Giesen 0%. So we had a little bit of tech issues, but I think all those have been worked out for the podcast recording. But I hope you enjoy this and if you have any questions, please reach out to me, deb, at mocktailmomcom. Lots and lots of love and big time cheers to you. Okay, we're doing a little day drinking with Duncan, day drinking with Duncan of Giesen 0%. Well, gießen, but I'm a massive fan of Giesen 0%. Well, giesen, but I'm a massive fan of Giesen 0%, duncan, your wines have helped me surf the urge to go back to my old wine ways since minute one. So thank you so much for all that you do for the non-alcoholic space and for those of us who are trying to continue drinking maybe, but not wake up with a hangover. Thank you.

Duncan:

Thanks. It's fantastic to be here and look I think look at Giesen we love wine, we absolutely love wine, and so it's great to hear those words.

Deb:

Awesome, awesome. Can I introduce you, duncan? Is that all right? If I read a little bit of your bio, that'd be okay. Okay, we've got people dialing in from oh, southern Pennsylvania.

Deb:

I grew up outside of Philly. Nice to have you, texas, in the house. New York State is in the house, minnesota, welcome you guys. Welcome welcome Naples, florida, nice to see you guys. Okay, duncan Shouler is the chief, with a deep understanding of wines, to create exceptional alcohol-free wines that maintain the complexity and flavor of their alcoholic counterparts. We call them full-leaded counterparts. We call them full-leaded. Under Duncan's leadership, giesen has become a global leader in the non-alcoholic wine category, offering a range of 0% wines that are redefining the way we think of wine. So welcome, welcome, duncan. Thank you for your time. Thank you for stopping by here while you're in the States. Duncan lives in New Zealand, which is where Giesen is made, but I would love to have you maybe just share the non-alcoholic history, how Giesen got into this and what was the first. What was your first non-alcoholic wine?

Duncan:

Yeah, thanks, deb. Well, look, I apologize, it looks like I'm not sure if my hotel internet is not too good, but hopefully it hangs in there. We'll see how we go. We got into this about five years ago At Giesen Wines. We've been making regular premium New Zealand wine for about 40 years. But at Giesen Wines we've been making regular premium New Zealand wine for about 40 years. So we love wine, we love making wine, we love expressing New Zealand in a bottle.

Duncan:

About five years ago we did a company-wide health and well-being initiative and it was a great program. Basically, it was one of those ones where you count your calories for a month, count what you're eating, try and count your steps Really really good initiative for all of the staff at Giesen. I signed up to it. Signed up to it straight away, as did the rest of the winemaking team, and then pretty quickly after that, we all realised that it involved not drinking any alcohol for the month. Now, obviously, being winemakers, we love wine.

Duncan:

We're sort of surrounded by wine every day, making it and tasting it for bottlings and things, and we thought, well, this is going to be a problem, because what are we going to have with our dinner at night, or what are we going to have after a hard day at work. So we went out, we tried to find some zero alcohol wine alternatives, of which there was very few at that time, and what we tasted didn't really give us the experience we were looking for. I love, love using the word whiny now, and it sounds like a really silly word, but it's very important with non-alcoholic wine. We couldn't find anything that was whiny and gave us a wine experience. So quite simply, we said, well, can we make one? Can we do one ourselves? And at the same time we were very lucky, the technology spinning cone technology just came to New Zealand, and so the stars aligned. We made a small batch, we tasted it, we thought it was pretty good and gosh, the rest is history.

Deb:

The spinning cone. Check out. Have you named the spinning cone? Did you name her? She's massive. Can you explain? Can you explain? Because you guys have a new right, a whole new spinning cone technology, like a whole new piece of equipment this year.

Duncan:

Right, that's right, that's right, that's right. Do you know what? We haven't actually named them, but the boring name is. There's two. One of them is called an SCC 1000. The other one is called an SCC 10,000. The board is, of course, 10 times large, and so it means that we can make the wine faster, which is much better for quality, and that's really fantastic for us.

Deb:

Amazing. And how many countries is Giesen sold in right now?

Duncan:

Over 60 countries and the zero alcohol wine would be certainly over 20. So it is very much worldwide. Here in the United States we've got quite a big range. We've got a sparkling wine, a Riesling, a Sauvignon Blanc, obviously being New Zealand's classic white variety, Riesling, Sauvignon Blanc obviously being New Zealand's classic white variety. We have a Pinot Grigio. There it is, we have a Pinot Grigio. We have a Chardonnay now as well, which is one of the latest, Really, really excited about that.

Deb:

And the premium red. Okay, so good. Okay, I would love to open it up for questions Anybody. Would that be okay, duncan, if I open it up for questions?

Duncan:

Absolutely yes, please do.

Deb:

Okay, okay, this is your opportunity to ask anything you want to. Literally, the best of the best is with us tonight or today. I should say it's not tonight. I guess, depending on where you are In New Zealand, it is tonight. Right, it's still dark in New Zealand. Okay, who has a question for Duncan? Anything you want to know about non-alcohol wines? Somebody's asking how, okay, how exactly do you remove the alcohol?

Duncan:

that's a great question and it's uh, it's, it's. You know, everyone needs to know this. I think we're strong believers in full transparency with how we do this. It's really important that people know how we're making the wine. Well, you start off, start off with a regular wine. Let's take the Sauvignon Blanc as an example. So you make a normal New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. So you pick the grapes, you ferment them, you create a Sauvignon Blanc with probably about 12.5% alcohol and all the classic flavors that you know in a Sauvignon Blanc. And now, of course, you've got to remove the alcohol. So the way we do that with spinning cone technology is a form of distillation.

Duncan:

Now spinning cone is a vacuum distillation. That means it can run at very low temperatures. Low temperature is really key, because a high temperature is going to impact the flavor of the wine. One thing that's really unique about spinning cone is that you can remove the aroma from the wine before you remove the alcohol. So you can basically use it to distill a concentrated form of the wine's aroma. In the case of Sauvignon Blanc, it's a bit like a Sauvignon Blanc perfume. If you like, you can put that aside and protect that while you remove the alcohol at higher temperatures and then, once you've removed the alcohol, you can then reintroduce the aroma. So it means the aroma is not going through that harsh alcohol removal process which is really key to our process.

Deb:

What's the temperature that has to like? What's a low? What is the low temperature? What does that mean? Like how hello. What are we doing?

Duncan:

Yeah, you're talking about 80 degrees Fahrenheit, 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit, so in Celsius, between 35 and 38 degrees Celsius For distillation purposes. That's very, very cold. You wouldn't want to keep a wine at that temperature for any length of time. So when you're using the spinning cone it's really important that the wine passes through quite quickly. You want the process to be quick, to remove the alcohol quickly and quite efficiently so the wine doesn't get that cooked characteristic.

Deb:

So good. Okay, what was it like the first time you bottled the non-alcoholic wine? You were doing this health challenge. What did you guys think the first time you made this? And it was do you feel like you struck gold?

Duncan:

Well, we didn't really know, to be honest. We knew we had a good product because we tasted it next to the competition and we could see that we had something that looks more whiny I'll use that term again. It looked more whiny than the competition. It had that lovely New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc characteristic. So we knew we had a good product. We didn't know how well the consumer would respond to it and, of course, it's been an amazing response. People have really got on board. We also didn't know who the consumer was. It sounds like a funny thing to say, but we thought it'd probably be people who don't drink at all. Um, you know, people who are maybe not drinking because they're pregnant or health issues, and what we found is that, yes, that is the case. Those people really have adopted these wines, but so have regular wine drinkers and people who just want to reduce their alcohol intake slightly and integrate a little bit of something into their lives that just helps them reduce the alcohol, without missing out on having an adult drink with dinner.

Deb:

Isn't that fantastic. I think they call it like a zebra strike drinker. Have you heard that term ever?

Duncan:

I think I have. Yeah, it's a great term.

Deb:

Yeah, I just actually Derek. I think I saw him here on the call from Mocktail Whiz. No-transcript.

Duncan:

Maybe one of the biggest challenges as you come into 2025, with the growth of the non-alcoholic segment of your business yeah, I mean certainly, uh, keeping up with demand is always a challenge, but I think, um, you know, like you said, we we've bought a bigger spinning cone now, so that obviously helps with that. But the biggest, the biggest challenge for us is we we've got ourselves into a really good position where we're leaders in the category and I think we've got a really fantastic product. But the category is moving fast, as is the consumer, and so our biggest challenge is to keep innovating, keep driving the quality of what we're making, producing new products and things that are still interesting. Um, you know, the non-alcoholic space and the low alcoholic space just needs to be really fun and surprising. We need to bring out new products that people weren't expecting and keep pushing the quality at the same time.

Deb:

Okay, I can't wait More. Bring out more. Okay, kathy is asking. She says she's a heavy cab drinker. Caymus is her favorite. What would she order? That would be comparable, I mean, the Red Blend would be the closest right.

Duncan:

Yeah, absolutely so. The Premium Red Blend would be the closest. Now you've got to remember that when you remove alcohol, especially compared to a big wine like Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon, the wine is always going to be a bit lighter. But you're just trying to get the experience as close as you can. So the premium zero alcohol red that we make at Giesen, that's going to have the tannin, the oak, those dark berry characteristics. It won't have as much body but it'll give you that sense of the red wine that you're looking for and it's also really nice with proteins. Matches really well with the feel of that wine.

Deb:

Okay, and I did want to say one way as well. You could even kind of you know, maybe I don't want to say up level because I love, but to maybe make it change up a little bit would be maybe to add like a non-alcoholic bitter. Have you ever done that, duncan? Have you ever added like an aromatic bitter or anything like that to the red blend, the premium red blend?

Duncan:

good with the zero sparkling. Um, so you can basically make a non-alcoholic version of an aperol spritz. Um, it's really lovely. And look, we really encourage people to have fun with these products. They're there to have fun with and you can drink them straight out of the bottle, you know, as you would a regular wine, uh well, maybe in a glass first, but, you know, don't add anything, or you can have fun with it. Add some fruit juice or some bitters and things and just something that works for you and for whatever occasion it is. If you're having an aperitif, I really recommend that. A bit of bitters with zero alcohol sparkling works really lovely.

Deb:

That is so nice. Okay, somebody's asking. Okay, billy's saying I've heard about your amazing Chardonnay. Will that become more available within the US distribution? I see other wines have it. Yeah, actually I had a hard time finding the Chardonnay locally. I'm sure it's just maybe too because it's dry January, but will that become more widely available?

Duncan:

Yeah, it certainly will. The Chardonnay is the latest wine to hit the USA, so it's still kind of like you know. It's distributing itself throughout the country. It's penetrating the different markets, so absolutely it will be as available as all of the others. So that was an exciting one to make because all of a sudden you've now got a white wine with oak, with malolactic fermentation and these things and makes a really interesting style of wine. I think it's great.

Deb:

It's so good. It's so good. We mentioned the red blend a second ago. What I'll do sometimes, I'll take Fresca, put it over ice and use the red blend, so that's another option. During the summer at least it's so easy to do. Okay, monica's asking what is on the horizon for Giesen and what can consumers look forward to. Can you give us any hints, duncan, of what's coming up?

Duncan:

Well, look, I mean, I think there's always something on the horizon at Giesen. So what I can say is look out, there's going to be new products coming out. We are looking into the area of premium, super premium wines. So if you imagine fully barrel, barrel aged, even single vineyard expressions, we're looking at that and other varieties, other styles. So there's always something on the horizon.

Duncan:

I can't give too much away, um, but we won't tell anybody what we yeah, what we really love as well, though, is to hear what do people really want and, um, you know, what do they want to see? Because we're a very consumer-led company and we love to try and make things that we know people really want. So if there's things out there that people want, let us know and we'll look at it.

Deb:

Okay, I love that. Yes, if anybody has anything you would like to see, yes, Okay. So Eve is saying what about mini bottles or canned Great question, Love that.

Duncan:

It is a great question and certainly for on-premise small bottle format is fantastic because, of course, if it's just one person at the table who's drinking, zero, it's a big investment for a restaurant to open a whole bottle to pour one glass. So we're aware of that. So that's something else we're looking at is going into probably small format bottles, especially with the bubbles, especially with the sparkling. That's something we're looking into.

Deb:

Okay, that is so awesome. Okay, Emily's asking. She says did he say they changed from alcoholic to non-alcoholic wine? So, Emily, are you asking about the process, like how the process is made? Is that right? Because they still sell. If you go to Total Wine that's where I buy Giesen 0%. But Duncan, I didn't know. This is the first that I bought from Giesen. I did not realize that you Originally I didn't realize you guys started as a regular vineyard, regular winemaker. I didn't know that. So people have to be very careful If they are looking, they need to make sure, Because sometimes the labels can look similar. You need to make sure you're getting the one with the 0% on it if you're looking for non-alcoholic, right.

Duncan:

Absolutely, absolutely so. Like I said, we've been making regular wine, alcoholic wine, for over 40 years and look, I think that that's a really important part of this and I think it's been a real key to the success of the geese and zero range. So we still make a lot of full alcohol wine.

Deb:

it's more we make more than we do zero, but of course, zero alcohol is growing very rapidly, which is fantastic yeah, it's so good to hear yeah, because the I was just listening to something yesterday how the wine I mean industry is what down 15? The traditional wine industry is down significantly from in their turn. They're they don't know what to do with it. So you guys are doing it right.

Duncan:

Yeah, it's a shame. Regular wine consumption is definitely down and so the regular wine industry is a little bit in decline at the moment. Meanwhile, zero alcohol I think in the USA over the last 12 months it's grown by 18% on volume and 27 percent by value. Um, so it's growing rapidly. That's incredible. Basically, I think in the usa in the last 12 12 months, 18 percent increase on volume year on year for zero alcohol wine and 27 percent by by value For Giesen wines.

Duncan:

We've been experiencing 40-50% growth year-on-year and so it's certainly grown very rapidly for us, while regular wine is getting harder and harder to sell.

Deb:

Yeah, amazing. Okay, sue is asking which kinds of 0% do you have? Do you want to go through them all and tell us a little bit about the tasting notes of them, and then we can open up for a couple more questions and that'll be it. That sound good.

Duncan:

Absolutely. So we'll start off with the sparkling wine. So we have a Giesen Zero Alcohol Brut. Now that is a wine made with Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Gris grapes and of course it's sparkling. So it's got really lovely. It's dry, it's very fresh, it's very playful wine, a little bit of pear and spice and very slightly subtle citrus and tropical fruits. Really nice, and it's a great base for a cocktail. So really fantastic option. Then we've got the Sauvignon Blanc. Now the Sauvignon Blanc was the original, that was our first wine. Now that wine of course has that New Zealand characteristic. It's got the tropical fruit, the citrus fruit and that really lovely acidity, and it's quite dry. So really nice and refreshing.

Duncan:

From there we can move on to the Pinot Grigio, a very classic New Zealand Pinot Grigio. Now you're talking a little bit less acidity and a little bit more sweetness. So if you like something that's a bit softer than the Sauvignon Blanc, that's the one to go for. What you're going to taste with that wine is apples and pears, a little bit of caramel and a little bit of spice. It's quite lovely. It's a really nice autumn wine, I think. Then we dial up the sweetness a bit more and we go to our Riesling. We've got a zero alcohol Riesling which we've made in sort of a Germanic style, so it's medium sweet and if you love that little bit of sweetness in the wine, that's the one for you. It's got beautiful acidity and lovely limey characters, so that balances the sweetness really nicely. That's actually a bit of a personal favorite of mine. I'm not always a big fan of sweeter wines, but that one I love. The limey sherbet characteristic in that wine Really fantastic. And then of course, the most recent one is our Chardonnay zero alcohol Chardonnay.

Deb:

It's empty. Duncan, it's empty. This is so good.

Duncan:

And of course, that wine there is dry and it's got the oak. So now, if you're a wine drinker who loves a bit of oak in your wine, then the 0% Chardonnay is the one for you. Then we have a Rosé. The Rosé is made from Pinot Gris and Pinot Noir and that's a really lovely dry style of Rosé a little bit of red fruits, a bit of cranberry, strawberry, a little bit of spice, and that's a beautiful summer wine. It's just a lovely kind of aperitif style. And then, last but not least, we've got the premium red.

Duncan:

Now the premium red is it's another favorite of mine, especially if you're having it with food. If you're having that with protein, um, the tannin in that wine and the protein go really well together and you get that lovely sort of winy experience. It's that lovely, lovely combination that occurs when you drink red wine eating protein. It's a lovely thing. So that's made from Merlot and Cabernet Franc and that wine's going to have dark berries, a little bit of spice, a little bit of herbal characteristics and some oak of course, and then that lovely structure and richness on the palate.

Deb:

Love it. Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't believe you're telling us which ones are your favorites, like telling us which one's your favorite child Duncan. We just got the inside track. So good to hear. Okay, somebody's asking does the good health ingredients of wine stay in the 0% during the de-alkalizing process? Do the good health ingredients stay?

Duncan:

Yeah, I mean everything's staying in except the alcohol.

Duncan:

Well, the answer is yes, they do. It's a great question. I love that question. If you look at the zero alcohol premium red, one of the most healthy things in a red wine are the tannins, the polyphenols, because they're great antioxidants. People know about resveratrol and polyphenols in red wine. They're very, very healthy. Of course, the alcohol is potentially slightly less healthy if you consume too much of it. When we take the alcohol out of the premium red, you still have the tannin, the polyphenols and the resveratrol. So now you've got something that is really healthy for you because you don't have the alcohol but you do have those lovely antioxidants that are great in several aspects of health.

Deb:

Awesome. Okay, Rob is saying the Riesling is awesome with Thai food. Good to know. Thank you for that tip. If anybody's getting Thai food anytime soon grab a bottle of Riesling. And then Eve is saying the Riesling is one of my favorite of Giesen's. It's very true to the style. The non-alcoholic version is very true to style. So thank you, that's awesome. That is awesome. Anybody have any last questions before we close out our little day drinking with Duncan Duncan, I could start like a whole series. We could do a whole thing. We're going to just start calling it day drinking with Duncan.

Duncan:

I think it sounds great you like that there's always a lot to talk about and there's nothing wrong with having a nice little cold drink during the day.

Deb:

Yeah, absolutely Okay. So I personally, I'm in Kentucky, I purchased at Total Wine, I purchased at Kroger, but Giesen 0% is in many, many locations, not even like Meijer. I've seen the bottles Trying to think where else? Don't think Walmart, yet I don't think so. And then obviously online.

Duncan:

They're in Wegmans, some of them are in Whole Foods, so they're pretty well distributed now.

Deb:

Yeah, a lot easier to find than in the very beginning. So, duncan, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for dropping into the Mocktail Summit. I'm so grateful.

Duncan:

It's a pleasure, as always. I apologize again for the internet connection. Hopefully I wasn't too scratchy. No problem, I think yeah so great.

Deb:

Okay, have a great finish of your tour here in the States and please give our love to everybody over at Giesen. We really appreciate you guys, so thank you.

Duncan:

Thanks everybody, Thank you so much you guys.

Deb:

Big time cheers to you for tuning in to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.