Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

EP 110 A Bartender’s Perspective on Living Alcohol-Free with Lief Frederick

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 110

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This week, I’m hanging out with Lief Frederick, a bartender of 15+ years, an expert at crafting next-level non-alcoholic drinks, and the creator of @thevariantco on Instagram. Lief shares how his bar experience is helping people make better alcohol-free drink choices and opens up about his own journey to ditching alcohol, including the powerful realization about his daughter that gave him the nudge he needed to make a change.

Together, we delve into the beautifully rewarding aspects of an alcohol-free lifestyle. It's about more than just drinks—it's about being present for your family, navigating social events with confidence, and the comfort of a supportive community. 

So if you're looking for new alcohol-free drinks to try, insider tips from a pro, and an inspiring conversation, this episode is for you. Cheers to this empowering journey!



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Deb:

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober, fun guide. So sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers, okay, hey, friends, welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free. We're doing a little pre-gaming. Right now I have Lief Frederick from the company joining us today.

Deb:

I'm going to read his bio in a second, but he's making a drink right now. Let's do a little pre-gaming. I'm just having a little lo pop and he's gonna actually make a proper mocktail non-alcohol cocktail.

Lief:

While we're getting ready here for our podcast, let's go yeah, this one I'm keeping really simple, which is honestly some of the best things to do, especially if you get home just want to whip something together.

Lief:

Wilderton the, the bittersweet aperitif, is something I just started kind of jumping into they've been around for a little bit, but I just tasted them for, actually, while I was at Mindful Drinking Fest. Okay, yeah, so this is just going to be a couple ounces of that with a new one I also just discovered which is Dappled, which is three different tonics. This is actually their floral, which I think pairs perfectly with this one. Just a quick whip together and a quick cheers, I guess.

Deb:

I love that. Yes, big time cheers to you, lee. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to talk to you and follow you on Instagram. I'm going to share your bio. I love that. Okay, two ingredients, that's a perfect little drink right there, with flavor, right Deliciousness.

Lief:

Yes, yeah, it's. I mean so much. You get the. You know, you get the grapefruit and the bittersweet from the, the Wilderton, but then adding that tonic and it's got this. These florals, you know some of those. They have a. They have one that's aromatic, that one's a little more bitter, this one, I think the floral with everything, is just a perfect one. Citrus, that's the other one. They have a citrus one that goes really well, Nice, yeah, so definitely that's going to be in my fridge constantly.

Deb:

Okay, that's going to be on repeat. That'll be on repeat. Yeah, I was going to say for the summer, but you're in California so it's kind of always summer in Southern California.

Lief:

Not right now. Oh, really got rain. We finally got rain. It's been brutal out here, as everybody's kind of seen. We finally got some rain out here, which was much needed.

Deb:

Great, we're about to get snow in Kentucky. I'm buckling back up for that, oh my gosh.

Deb:

Okay, guys, this is Lief Frederick, and his Instagram make sure you're following him is the Variant Company. I'll put it in the show notes, but it's the Variant V-A-R-I-A-N-T-C-O is his Instagram handle, so make sure you're following him. He is a 15 plus year bartender who has retired from drinking six years ago. His Instagram page is dedicated to exploring and celebrating exceptional alcohol-free alternatives. Most importantly, I love this he's a husband, he's a girl, dad to two beautiful daughters and you're a grandpa to be. No, you're not.

Lief:

No, you're not, you are the youngest grandpa, ever what did you have?

Deb:

your first child at age 10?

Lief:

No, no, no, no, a little bit older than that, but it's something that you know crafting my whole mind around. But I am so excited. I'm so excited for her and her husband and just for this addition to our family.

Deb:

How wonderful, what a blessing.

Lief:

What a blessing.

Deb:

Yeah, okay, so you've been sober for six years.

Lief:

I have Okay.

Deb:

Can you share? I would love to hear your sober story. I want to hear your story about starting the variant company and how you've been. Yeah, I would love to hear your sober story. I want to hear your story about starting the Variant Company and how you've been.

Lief:

yeah, what's been going on for you in the non-alcoholic space? Absolutely so. You know, like you said, I've been 15 plus year bartender and it was one of those things like I dove into that bartender life. It was something that's like, you know, you're working, you're making cocktails, you're drinking cocktails and it just turns into like this whole kind of lifestyle that just kind of took over and it's one of those things that after a while you don't realize how far down the well you are. You know, and I don't think I really, until I decided to, until I decided to stop. You know, it's one of the things like I lost, you know, you know, relationships with family. It was one of the things like I lost relationships with my family. It was just something.

Lief:

I finally looked at myself and wasn't liking who I saw. Yeah, and the last straw was day drinking, one of those just kind of passed out. And I woke up and I had this thought of, if I don't quit, my daughter's gonna be invited to my funeral before I'm invited to her wedding. That was it like. That was that was it that I had decided that wasn't gonna drink anymore, you know, and I was one of those that quit like kind of cold turkey. I had some people that said, oh, you made it look easy. It's not easy, it's a constant process. So even now, there's probably at least one or two times throughout the course of the day where I envision where I was before. I envision what I didn't have and what I have now, which is a huge motivator, huge, huge motivator. But everything in my life got so much better when I decided to quit. You know, at that time I didn't really have a relationship with my daughter. Now I have this beautiful relationship with her. You know my wife, who's also sober- Okay.

Lief:

We met through a dating app. Oh, my husband and's also sober. Okay, we met. We met through a dating app.

Deb:

Oh, my husband and I met the same way. Yes, dating app. Let's hear it for the dating apps.

Lief:

Oh, right, yeah, Big cheers to Hinge, yeah, like that was.

Deb:

Okay, we were on matchcom back before. They even had videos on it. Like this was like years ago, yeah.

Lief:

Oh, wow.

Deb:

That's awesome. Okay, so that's how you guys met. Love it.

Lief:

Yeah, and the funny thing about that one really quick is. So I remember looking on, you know, you know you're swiping or whatever.

Deb:

Yeah, window, you're shopping.

Lief:

Yeah, and I remember, like, passing out, I'd see pictures of young ladies that, like you know, oh, I only drink once in a while but three out of four pictures they have like a drink in their hand, right. So I'm just like, okay, it's not going to work. I didn't think about like, when I posted my profile, like the best picture I had at the time was me in front of the bar. It was like it was like me at work, it was like this great. I was like, oh, it was a great picture. So when my wife saw it, she's just like, oh, bartender, there's, there's no way, I can, no way, this is going to work. But she actually kind of scrolled down and at that time I was just over four years sober and I said that was like my biggest accomplishment. So that could have easily that could have been a quick swipe and none of this, you know. But you know, thankfully, you know, I have her in my life. She was absolutely amazing. Now we have a one-year-old, almost one-year-old, in about two weeks. Yeah, 17th.

Deb:

She'll be a year in two weeks.

Lief:

Yeah, I'm 17th. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, yeah, it is. She's amazing, like she's just. You know what she has brought into our lives and my family's lives? And, you know, has this amazing older sister and now she's going to have another you know another, she's going to be an aunt before she's two right. Yeah, I know They'll be like siblings, though.

Deb:

That's kind of nice.

Lief:

They're going to be like siblings. They really will.

Deb:

That's so nice.

Lief:

You know, it's one of those things that none of this would have happened if I hadn't decided to stop drinking. Wow, wow. But I'm loving this journey and I'm loving now kind of going into this new venture of mine with the alcohol-free alternatives and something. Again, even though I've been sober for six years, nothing I could even imagine really doing, to be honest, because I wasn't familiar with six years ago there wasn't much. There wasn't.

Deb:

There weren't a lot of alcohol-free alternatives at the time.

Lief:

Right, it was like everything was just like you know. You had your kind of two big, two or three non-alcoholic beers.

Deb:

You had Ritual and Seedlip, I think probably. Yeah, yeah, that was pretty much it, the main ones, you know, at least here in the States, and Liars. But yeah, now it's crazy right.

Lief:

It is.

Deb:

And you went to the Mindful Drinking Fest, right? So you got to see like that was in Washington DC in January.

Lief:

You got to see all the stuff it was and it was so cool to see. But not only that, it was like the community. Like you said before, this community is amazing. This is kind of like when I quit drinking, like I did a cold turkey and I was like, okay, aa is great for so many people, it just wasn't for me. It wasn't for me and so I kind of was just doing it on my own. You know, I didn't even really share that. I was sober until maybe the first year starting the variant company. And then you start following people, people start following you, and then you see everybody's journey, whatever it is, whether they've completely quit drinking, whether they're just interested in alcohol-free alternatives it is so cool to see. And then going to Mindful Drinking Fest, where I swear I walked in feeling like the kid at the new school for the first 20 minutes.

Deb:

Okay.

Lief:

It's all these people who already knew each other. I just happened to be standing next to Amanda from Tomo no, Tomo oh.

Deb:

I love Tomo, no Tomo.

Lief:

Right, it's so good. I had just made a couple drinks with that too. She knew who I was, and then we started talking and it was crazy because then I had to run out the door because I was doing a pop up like an hour later. Yeah, one of my best friends lives in DC and works in a restaurant.

Deb:

OK.

Lief:

So he was just like, hey, you want to do this, so. But then coming back, you know, the next day and there was the tasting hall and all these different things and people who recognized me and I'm just just just connecting with everybody Like that was to have that under one, not one roof, but just at one place. But you know, just in general, this community is awesome and so helpful too. For someone that's like brand new I'm a year into this it's been a lot of fun.

Deb:

Have you been drinking non-alcoholic?

Lief:

cocktails and stuff. How long have you been making them? So just about a year, so last January.

Deb:

Really.

Lief:

Yeah, last January. So I work, I bartend at a Creole restaurant here in Claremont, okay, and last January I was just like we always do a drink special Like each month or about every month we do a drink special and I was just like you know what Maybe I'll do a dry January, because you were really starting to see more people you go into Target or you go into Sprouts out here, and it was like they actually had sections, but yeah, not just like a little shelf, they had a whole section. I was like, all right, well, let me do this. And I think I did. Oh, I did the sangria with a Giesen. Oh, yeah, that little ritual. I just kind of whipped something together.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, a Giesen, sorry, oh, I say them all wrong. I've called them all wrong. Yeah, believe me.

Lief:

I've made videos for companies and then I'm like, oh, whoops, was I saying your name wrong the whole time? Oh, yeah, yeah. So I did that and I was just like, okay, that actually did pretty well. I was like, okay, well, let me see what else is out there. And then you know, once you start working something up, everything starts popping up. That's true. I'm just like, okay, there's this, there's this. And then pathfinder.

Lief:

pathfinder was like my first, like first love whoa yeah okay, this is different there's complexity there's, there's so much to this, so I just kept kind of going into it and I'm all, let me just let's not mess it. I've never done anything instagram like, besides, like my couple posts, like on my personal thing. I had no clue what I was doing. I had no clue what I was doing but I was just like, all right, I'm going to start playing around with stuff. And then, you know, I popped into a non-alcoholic bottle shop. It's not there anymore. You know, kind of saw it. It was cool because the woman who was helping me was so helpful and had all this knowledge about the different things and you know. And then checking out the wines and the beers, and so I just started buying stuff. And, you know, all of a sudden I started getting this collection of things and just started playing around with stuff. And now it's just like it's become a passion. It like it really has.

Lief:

Especially there's so many good things out there. There are. There are, yeah, so many good options. And then out here you got other bottle shops that are opening up. You got Burden of Proof out in Pasadena, which is doing some killer stuff. They just opened. Really, they just opened and they're having tasting and they're having. They already paired up with a couple of things ready to cocktail making class. You know you've got all these things that are happening everywhere.

Deb:

That's amazing. Yeah, there's so many options now, so many places popping up and places you can buy things I mean all over the place. Ok, so what is the Variant Company? Is it a business that you're starting or it's more?

Lief:

It is a business that I'm starting.

Lief:

I started just not knowing where where I was going with it yet. Um so, really like exactly how the other bio says, it's an exploration of exceptional alcohol-free alternatives from there. Now it's just just posting. It's just showing people all the different options and what can be done with it. You know, there are some things I'm kind of looking towards in the future. I've done a couple pop-ups. I'm actually thinking about doing a mobile service. I'm definitely going to be partnering up with some of these different bottle shops that are out here Then, I think, finding some of the right products out there to really team up with. There's so much good stuff out there and it's growing so fast that it's insane just keeping up with everything.

Deb:

I think it's impossible to keep up with. Yeah, personally it's very overwhelming. So I can only imagine if you're just walking into this non-alcoholic space right now. For somebody it's like what is going on? What is all this stuff?

Lief:

You know you've seen it in your comments too, like on Facebook, where everyone's like, well, what is this or what is that? Or even people asking you know what Apertif is, or do you just? You know there's so much information to gain, there's so much information to gain and I just hope that I can kind of help with a little bit of that with my actual bar experience. You know, kind of gifting it over into the alcohol-free row.

Deb:

Oh, absolutely, it'd be so helpful for people. I mean so many moms like myself, like, just stop drinking wine. I mean I kind of went cold turkey like you, like just stop drinking. I was like, okay, I just want to take a little break, but I didn't know what the heck, what am I doing with this sha-?

Lief:

What do I do?

Deb:

with this shaker cup, you know no-transcript.

Lief:

Non-alcoholic cocktails on the menu.

Deb:

Really.

Lief:

Yeah, which was really cool, and they actually said to me well, why don't you put a couple more on there, because everybody else is just drinking sodas and juice and then putting it in a fancy glass and selling it for like 10 bucks, so to actually be able to do that and then kind of see what the reviews some are a little bit different than others, and that's okay. Doing something like an aperitif that has a little bit more bitterness to it, some people love, some people don't. That's totally okay.

Deb:

Everybody's tasted it. Okay, do you have some favorite Aperitifs? I know, obviously, the Wilderton you're drinking right now.

Lief:

Yeah. So the Wilderton, I really like the Everleaf. I think those are a little bit on the sweeter end, not as bitter, a little bit more delicate, but those ones go like I really like I'm going to throw in the Namari.

Deb:

Okay, I haven't tried that. And Katie of Soberish Mom was telling me about it.

Lief:

She said it's delicious, it is, it is so it is that got rich and bittersweet. Uh, it's more of a djc maro style, like an italian maro style. You can say it's close with like to the pathfinder, like, yeah, like in that room, but it's, it's such a different, unique flavor okay, I need to order that one, and I love, yeah, and I love that one and they're, they're right.

Lief:

I've actually met britney from one of the founders of them a couple times. She did a couple pop-ups out here in claremont. Uh, just such a, such a cool person, such a great product, so that's definitely one I really like. Uh boch, which isn't out here yet, but that one's actually uh out of the UK and it was. It's actually a apple vinegar, huh.

Deb:

Has like a little bite to it yeah.

Lief:

Oh, it's got more than a little bite. Like it's nothing. Like I poured myself two ounces of that over a cube and decided to just, you know, take a big old swig of it, and I was just like, oh, surprise and decided to just take a big old swig of it and I was just like, oh, surprise, one of those things is like do I like this or not? But then I was like, oh, there's so many cool things I could do with this, but you only need like a half ounce A little bit Okay.

Lief:

Yeah, you only need a little bit of it to really do some cool things with cocktails Very cool. So that's what I'm digging in. I'm hoping that'll be out here later this year. Great, great. Just other things that complement, I think, cava.

Deb:

Haven is such a cool. I like Cava Haven.

Lief:

Yeah, it's a unique flavor, it is.

Deb:

I like it with some orange juice. Just keep it simple. I mean a cranberry mule with it was really good.

Lief:

Yeah, ro, it was really good. Yeah, roots Divino Okay, a really good Donald Hollywood Vermouth Okay, they have a Blanco and a Rosso that are really tasty.

Deb:

What do you like to make with that?

Lief:

Negronis.

Deb:

Okay, yeah.

Lief:

Love Negronis. You can go different ways with it. Genuinely, they're gin-based cocktails, right? So you've got that, the vermouth, and then your aperitifs. So before you know I was doing a lot with Ritual, I was throwing that in there.

Lief:

Their aperitif's great because it's much more on the bitter side, it's very bitter, because a lot of the other ones like kind of went more sweet. And then now with Wildersonerson, I think that does both. I think you have both the bitter and the sweet. That goes great. So so that with the roast I like doing that. And then, um, there's also, there's a new tequila alternative coming out. Okay, that is killer, that I did a negroni style with that. It hasn hasn't even been released yet, but it's called Tradition. Yeah, I got introduced to them at Mindful Drinking Fest. They just brought some bottles out and I was just like I'm actually I'm going to be posting about the cocktail I did today.

Deb:

Oh, great, great, Okay, I can't wait to see it. That's awesome.

Lief:

But yeah, so it's like I just love making I'm I have so much fun with it and I I noticed now like being so new to it before and now I'm all like a stickler for all these little editing things oh, on your videos, you mean, or on your? Yeah, yeah, my videos. I'm just like, oh, that's not right, that's not right.

Deb:

it's a whole thing, the whole video editing. It is Before I even left the event was like, I mean, maybe 30 minutes after it ended I was leaving and she sent me two videos, already edited, of footage that she had taken of the event. She was just there as like a guest or whatever and I was like I texted her back. I was like how did you do that so fast? How did you do all that editing? How did you do it so quickly? I mean, she's like in her 20s.

Deb:

So, this is like it takes me. I'm like. You have no idea how long it takes to do one video and I use CapCut.

Lief:

Do you?

Deb:

use CapCut.

Lief:

No, I haven't gotten literally doing everything just on my phone.

Deb:

Yeah, I use CapCut on my phone. Yeah, get CapCut, use it on your phone.

Lief:

I need to. Who was it that? Elaine, who you had recently? Oh, Mocktail Hour, I love her, I love her, yeah, yeah, she, yeah yeah. She's great, her videos are amazing. She did a thing on Sundays sometimes where she's like ask me anything, oh uh-huh, and I was just like, and I was just like hey, so when you first start, she said CapCut, was CapCut, you can do it on your phone, I know they have it like on the desktop.

Deb:

Sorry for everybody listening to the podcast. If you're interested in editing your own videos, go get yourself CapCut. Yeah, I think I have the annual subscription or whatever to it, but it's totally worth it, yeah, yeah. And then all the mothership. If you're on TikTok, the mothership, it's M-U-T-H like the mothership. Okay, her name's Helen, she's got like over a million followers but she teaches CapCut and tricks and stuff on editing.

Lief:

So anything I know how to do, and she's my age.

Deb:

Anything I know how to do. She's my age, so, like if she and I can learn after 50, there is hope for all.

Lief:

Right.

Deb:

Everyone can do the editing. So, yes, so what's been the best part and you were talking about like just what's been the best part of being sober? I mean obviously like your family, and I mean just your whole life is so different, right?

Lief:

Yeah, definitely. I mean just it's a complete, you know, just a complete switch, but just the overall, just that feeling and like, just throughout the day of I look around, I see everything that I have, like I said before, that I wouldn't have had, you know, and there's times around my sobriety where there are some tough things. You know, both my mom and my father have had health issues recently, sorry, stressful times and knowing that I don't need alcohol to get through those, yeah, being able to go through it and obviously leaning on my family and my wife through some of those times, but overall, just not once that I think it's like you know, my wife, you know, through some of those times, but overall, just not once that I think it's like you know what I need a drink to get through this. Yeah, so it's just just my overall way that I feel like, whether it's physically, even though I feel like I'm breaking down, right? You?

Lief:

know, I got knee issues, I got you know, but Same.

Deb:

Should we go to PT together? I'm in Kentucky, though, but yeah, maybe we go to physical therapy together.

Lief:

Right, yeah, we'll figure something out, um, but no, just just knowing that if anybody needs me on there like a hundred percent you know whether it's physically, mentally, and and the fact that they know that I think. I think there's no better feeling than to know that you can be there for the people that you love.

Deb:

That's so true. Yeah, and the phone can ring at 2 in the morning, 3 in the morning, and you're like fully, you know, okay, just let me wake up and I can hop in the car and do anything that needs to be done. You're not like I got to get sober before I can start driving or go help somebody, exactly.

Lief:

Yeah, exactly, before I could start driving or go help somebody. Exactly, yeah, exactly so, yeah, there's nothing better than that.

Deb:

Amazing. And you have a little baby. That's so awesome. She's going to be one, okay, so do you want to share? Well, you already shared a little recipe. When you go out to eat, if there's not a non-alcohol cocktail on the menu, what do you like to order or what would you ask the bartender, the guest?

Lief:

Honestly, if there's not an option, I usually just don't.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah.

Lief:

Honestly, I don't like I'll, I'm fine with tea or whatever.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, something else.

Lief:

I'm with an iced tea, fine with the soda.

Deb:

Yeah, I don't, I don't even you don't even go down that road, yeah.

Lief:

Yeah, but I'm also one of those people because I'm in restaurants, like I'd notice, I see everything, I can't turn my mind off, yep, and it goes with the same thing with, like, I can sit at bar. Yeah, I can sit at a bar and order food and not, you know, obviously find a bar all the time, so it doesn't really. But you know, if they have, if there are options, that's awesome.

Lief:

but if not, I'm like, yeah, it's fine, like it's yeah yeah, it does, it doesn't bother, it'd be cool if they did. But you know, you know, and some you're seeing more to at least have like a non-alcoholic beer beer, for sure you know you know it might not be. You know some of the ones that are up and coming, that we know like. You know, like brava partake or anything. But there was a restaurant that had the samuel adams nothing but the haze. I was surprised how good that was.

Lief:

That's really good right, that was really good. I was just like I can't remember where we were at, but I was just like Very nice.

Deb:

Have you tried Go Brewing?

Lief:

Yes, I actually ran into them. Actually they were the one brewery that was at Michael Drinks. Oh good, I'm glad they were there. I was actually surprised that there weren't more of those. There's wines and obviously a lot of different ready-to-drinks and things like that, but yeah, I was surprised there wasn't more of them. But Goldbrook yeah.

Deb:

They're very good. Do you have a favorite ready-to-drink in RTD or a couple of favorites?

Lief:

Ready-to-drink, so let's see. So I like the Blind Tiger because you can also mix something with it. You can drink it as it is or mix with it. I just curious elixirs I just got into recently and so those like I'm really enjoying those. Let's see, I just tried Lo-Fi Cava. They're ready to drink, like cava drink, really kind of mellow, really, like you know, really enjoyable. So I like those. Busty Lush too. I like Busty Lush too.

Deb:

I like Busty Lush.

Lief:

Yeah, I just had her lavender margarita I was drinking last week or so.

Deb:

Yeah, that was really good. Yeah, her products are delicious, so good.

Lief:

So definitely, definitely liking those ones right now, Okay.

Deb:

I want to make sure everybody's following you on the Gram Gram If they're not, and the Graham Graham if they're not. And you're on Facebook too, the Variant Company. I'll put it in the show notes so everybody can follow along. You share amazing drinks. I mean, I love what you're doing, thank you, and you're in my Facebook group. I think it's called Big Time Cheers, I think, if anybody wants to join our free Facebook group, there's lots of people in there and you have beautiful drinks in there, so thank you for doing that and that is such a great community.

Lief:

It really, you know it's. It's like I love like being in public. That was one that my wife showed me. I was just like, oh cool.

Deb:

And jumped in there.

Lief:

So, yeah, I love being a part of this community. Oh, thank you.

Deb:

Yes, we love having you and I am really just cheering you on for everything that your future is so bright, like I can't wait to just keep cheering you on. So, yeah, keep up the great work. You're doing such awesome, awesome things, so I'm excited for you. Good things.

Lief:

Thank you. Thank you, this is going to be a fun year.

Deb:

Yes, seriously this is going to be such a great year.

Lief:

It is, it is.

Deb:

I'm looking forward to it Awesome, awesome.

Lief:

Thank you so much for having me this was so fun, so fun, big time.

Deb:

Cheers to you for tuning into the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.