Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

Ep. 113 From Wine Industry to Sobriety Coach, Meet Ruby Williams

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 1 • Episode 113

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Ruby Williams shares her transformative journey from working in the wine industry while drinking three bottles a day to becoming a sober coach helping others find freedom from alcohol dependence.

• Struggled with disordered eating from a young age as her first coping mechanism
• Underwent bariatric surgery, which unexpectedly transferred her addiction to alcohol
• Worked in the wine industry, where drinking was normalized and celebrated daily
• Found The Naked Mind book by Annie Grace, which provided the science and mindset shift needed
• Transitioned from wine industry to becoming a certified coach
• Uses monk fruit as a sugar substitute when making mocktails
• Recommends allowing sugar cravings during early sobriety before addressing them
• Found community and connection essential in breaking free from isolation
• Emphasizes the importance of self-compassion in recovery
• Now coaches others one-on-one and in groups to find freedom from alcohol

Connect with Ruby on Instagram @RubyWilliamsCoaching or her website, RubyWilliamsCoaching.com

If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a rating & review!

Send me a message about the show!

To connect, join me for mocktails inside The Mocktail Social Club for Happy Half-Hours over Zoom.

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Speaker 1:

She recommended Annie Grace's book, the Sneaked Mind, and that was the book that was life-changing, really can change your mindset, change your. We call it rewiring the brain and learning to feel your feelings. It's kind of those two things are happening and then you can live a life where alcohol is just irrelevant. I didn't know that there was these communities that are out there now, or maybe they didn't really. I thought there was only AA. I didn't really like resonate with AA or rehab.

Speaker 2:

Okay, hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free. How are you so happy that you are here? We have a very special guest today, ruby Williams. She is a sober coach, ruby. How are you You're?

Speaker 1:

many things. I'm going to read your bio, but how are you? I'm doing really well. Thank you for having me on, Deb. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

Speaker 2:

I am really, really happy you and I met when we've connected on Instagram and then we met because I was a guest on your podcast. It seems like our podcasts are going to come out at the exact same time, so this has been so fun. Your Instagram handle is at Ruby Williams coaching, so make sure everybody's following you if they're not following you. But I'll read your bio and then I want to hear your story and how you got into this space and the journey of becoming alcohol free. So all right, here we go, friends.

Speaker 2:

Ruby is a certified naked mind senior coach on a mission to help those rethinking their relationship with alcohol. Living in Northern California wine country, she drank daily to cope with a stressful corporate job in the alcohol industry and the challenges of single motherhood, and she used food and alcohol to cope with the stress After weight loss surgery. Her disordered eating transferred to alcohol misuse. At age 49 in 2019 was the turning point in her journey to freedom from alcohol. Amazing Ruby helps her clients create profound mind shifts during sessions that can shrink the role of alcohol in their lives. Despite drinking every day to manage stress, she found freedom and was empowered to lose weight, get healthy and achieve some lifetime goals. I just got chills, oh my gosh. Ruby can help you reach a more fulfilling, healthy and balanced life free from relying on alcohol. Now, five plus years alcohol-free. She combines personal experience, self-compassion and evidence-based strategies to empower others as co-host of Feel Lit Alcohol-Free Podcast. Okay, so let's hear about how you got here to this place, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So well for many well and thank you again. But many women, I think, when the more I get like meet people and my story is not it's very common like by disordered eating or I don't know what the right PC thing to say is, but I would eat to numb emotions that started early, like probably that was my first coping tool, probably very young, definitely kind of got weird like in junior high and high school when we want to look skinny or whatever.

Speaker 1:

And so you know the diets and um, but so I would say, like my first addiction was was food, um, and that I would just eat to numb. Lots of diets you know, like, like Weight Watchers Jenny Craig, you name it. It like you of the one where you um drinks lemonade, oh that's. Do you remember the lemonade one? For a whole week, I think, I had only lemonade and maple syrup, like what's the weirdest yeah, that was like a bad yeah yeah, yeah, I've tried, like the cabbage soup diet, the whole 30 diet you name it diet, so that's the word.

Speaker 1:

But what the thing is is I remember with, like Jenny Craig, I got to my goal weight and then what you're off of it anyway, and then stress happens, so my weight would go I'm not I'm not kidding you up like a hundred pounds and down a hundred pounds, like it was a lot. But I went through. In what year was that? 2007,? 8, you know, when the home crisis happened, I went through a home foreclosure, custody battle with my ex-husband, the same time as my job got super stressful as a single mom and I gained over 100 pounds fairly quickly, I decided to have weight loss surgery, bariatric surgery. You know, there's the solution. I was always like wanting a quick fix, so just cut part of my stomach away. The thing is and if you let your listeners out that have had weight loss surgery, it's so interesting I haven't changed my mindset they don't give you like therapy or they cut away part of your stomach and, yes, you lose the weight because you cannot physically eat very much food. You're eating like a quarter cup of food, but you can drink liquids, you could drink alcohol and so it can be like called a transfer addiction. But yeah, I basically started drinking alcohol and it just was affected differently in my body. It was so interesting, like I used to just could take it or leave it.

Speaker 1:

I was definitely on the trajectory, working in the wine industry, to like having alcohol use disorder, but having the surgeries just sped it up completely and it was like a rush because it goes right to your bloodstream. Instead of spending, you know, alcohol spending time in your stomach, it just went right to my bloodstream. That kind of buzz or euphoric feeling was quick, but then it went away quick. That kind of buzz or euphoric feeling was quick, but then it went away quick, like really fast, like within minutes. I was like didn't feel, like nothing, so I would have another drink. So that kind of like ramp up to drinking more and more and more happened quite quickly and it's scary. It was scary, it was scaring me because I went from a couple of glasses to a bottle, to two bottles, to more than two, to probably three bottles. Then it switched to hard alcohol. Then it was going earlier and earlier in the day and it just was scaring me so much. But okay so, but I was working in the wine industry, as you were saying, so I worked for like-.

Speaker 2:

So cute.

Speaker 1:

Ruby, I just your whole face. You're like okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, everybody's just listening. You just can't imagine how sweet Ruby's face is. Oh, you're so sweet.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, so I grew up in the wine. You know my stepdad's a winemaker Grew up, you know, in the wine country Wine is. We talked about wine like it was like a living thing and it was very, you know, it's like romanticized and I grew up with all of that and then I ended up working in the wine industry and it's like a super fun industry, right. Like you know, we could drink.

Speaker 1:

We would drink in the morning for lunch. You could go out to lunch with your boss and be drinking a lot. We would drink in the afternoons. We'd drink after work. I mean it's kind of crazy how much that the alcohol industry drinks and then everybody's drinking the same or more, so it's just normalized.

Speaker 2:

You feel like it's just yeah, this is what everybody's doing. This is what everybody's doing, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So what happened was, at least in the company I was working for, they got rid of and let go of the people that had worked there for 20 years or longer, kind of all at once. And I was I'd been there more than 20 years or 20 years, but it was the best gift. I was super. It was because I had tried for probably seven years on my own, thinking I was so alone. I didn't know that there was these communities that are out there now, or maybe they didn't really. I thought there was only AA. I didn't really like resonate with AA or rehab, but I tried rules and like, okay, I'll buy the half bottles of wine. Well then, you just need a bunch of half bottles of wine.

Speaker 2:

So true, right, we all figure out a way. We figure out a way to navigate our rules, don't we? But to still get the wine or the alcohol we were. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll buy the half bottles.

Speaker 1:

So I tried for about seven years all these different rules. I even tried, like naltrexone, the Sinclair method, because again I want, like this, quick fix. How can I become a normal drinker again? But the gift was that they let me go and I actually they gave me severance so I could take some time. My number one goal was, like I want to figure out how to get alcohol free. I probably didn't word it like that. I was just like I got to understand my, my heart was hurting, my liver was hurting, I was just not sleeping. I gained, oh, I gained, sorry, I gained the weight back, just not sleeping, knew my, I gained, oh, I gained, sorry, I gained the weight back almost all of it like 80 pounds back.

Speaker 1:

I lost about surgery. Yeah, I gained it back because I wasn't. You know, how do you hear of some people that like they drink and then they don't eat? Well, I would drink and eat more, sure, yeah, yeah, I feel like, yeah, when I drank, it would like turn on.

Speaker 2:

It was like something turned on my brain. I was like, okay, what snacks are in this house now I need to eat, I need to start eating. Yeah, right, yeah, turned on. And this brain. I was like, okay, what snacks are in this house Now, I need to eat, I need to start eating. Yeah, yeah, turned on.

Speaker 1:

And this lay on the couch and watch Netflix.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then not remember when I watched Yep, but it got so scary I don't know if your listeners can understand this too, but I would have cycles. So this is where it gets to and this is how I understand people like waking up and doing it Like I would on the. I would try to drink as early as I could, but get my stuff done, get the chores done, get this. You know, I get the stuff basics done and then I would start drinking. It would be cycles. I would drink as much as I could pass out, maybe sleep for an hour and do it again, pass out, do it again. My, you know it was really scary, yeah. But anyway, back to my alcohol rejurdy, alcohol re journey. So I did what was called the Holly Whitaker Hip Sobriety School. Okay, I've never heard of it. Okay, yeah, she now has Tempest, or it was changed to Tempest, okay.

Speaker 1:

And then in there that she recommended Annie Grace's book, the Sneaked Mind, and that was the book that was life-changing, my catalyst really. I remember the first introduction. Annie says in her book it's 3.33 in the morning. I'm laying there awake, beating myself up, worrying about my health, and I just was like that's what I do every night. You mean there's other people on the planet that do this. Like I thought I was so alone. And then the science and like understanding instead of like alcohol is good for your heart and heart healthy, no, like I learned the truth about the science of your brain and your body.

Speaker 1:

And then I actually did do Kaiser outpatient rehab, I did medical therapy, I did AA, I did everything I could. I read every booklet, book I could. I just put my entire life into this because I wanted to feel better. Yeah, and then when I was about nine months alcohol free, I said I want to help other people, other women, mainly women and I would love to help people that have bariatric surgery or women that are just like me that resonate with me, maybe a divorced, you know, single mom. I had that empty nest thing that happened to me and just that corporate job that's really stressful. And then you add weight loss surgery to it and then I help people like lose weight too.

Speaker 2:

So I went through a divorce. Single mom life it is so stressful. I mean it is so stressful, my drinking definitely. Well, that's when it really took off was my girls would go to their dads for the weekend and it was like, okay, now it's me and Chardonnay and we can have a great party weekend here. So, yeah, yeah, I think it's so fantastic that you're helping women in that space, because it's very, very challenging.

Speaker 1:

It's very stressful. Yeah, I really didn't think I could do it, but if I can do it.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I think anybody can do it. Like what's the phrase? Old dogs can learn new tricks Like you really can change your mindset, change your. We call it rewiring the brain and learning to feel your feelings. It's kind of those two things are happening and then you can live a life where alcohol is just irrelevant, it doesn't matter. Yes, it's everywhere. I see it still everywhere Parties, holidays, vacation I see it everywhere. Baby showers, funeral. I mean it's everywhere.

Speaker 2:

And you know that this podcast is sponsored by the Mocktail Social Club, so if you're trying to figure out what to drink when you're not drinking, you are not alone. Join me in the Mocktail Social Club. It's your go-to community for women who love great drinks without the alcohol. Join us for weekly online happy half hours where we sip, chat, connect and discover the best mocktails and non-alcoholic options. It's fun and it's social. It's just about getting together and connecting over a mocktail or a non-alcoholic wine. If you're ready to raise a glass, check out themocktailsocialclubcom. Big time cheers to you, and here we go with the rest of the episode.

Speaker 1:

But I don't have any desire for it, I don't want it.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So like you could not have imagined this right now, like you could not have imagined not wanting it, being in a party and not Imagine it, yeah same.

Speaker 1:

It was my identity. So maybe other people feel this way too. But especially if you work in like the wine industry, alcohol industry, like that was my identity. I was Ruby working in the wine industry, like they were. They were intertwined, it was part of who I was. So that took many, many, many months, maybe a whole year, to like detangle myself from Ruby working in the wine industry. I found a job in another industry. Then I took a coach training and became a certified coach. Then I started my own business. Then I was able to slowly work less and less at my corporate job and now I'm a full time coach and it just brings me so much joy to see people change their lives, literally. Some people are in the deepest, darkest, like I was too. It feels like a deep dark hole of despair. Now I'm up in the lightness of. It almost is like a spiritual journey too for me in that from going to such a deep, dark place to like there's so much possibility in life now instead of I'm gonna like die young.

Speaker 1:

Probably I would have yep yep, and what one thing that really really got me was like I want to be a grandmother, even though my son's he's 27 but he's not married or having kids yet. But I want to be a grandmother that's vibrant and lays with their grandchildren, and all I could see was like this picture of myself getting bigger and unhealthy and laying on a couch and like being well, I did have a great uncle, my mom's uncle, who was what we called an alcoholic, you know back then, and he just laid on the couch and watched TV and like I thought that's what was going to happen to me. There's just so much life there. You know I'm 55 now. Okay, and I have a funny story for you, or a cool story. Yeah, my grandfather is 105. So I'm half his age, so I have a whole nother lifetime to live alcohol free. Wow, wow, yeah, that's incredible. And if I kept going on that trajectory where I was drinking three bottles and then hard alcohol like I probably would have not even been alive by now.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, my aunt had had bariatric surgery and she ended up passing away from from liver failure within like five years of her surgery. So this is a serious, serious problem. If you have had weight loss surgery, I really would love to talk to you. It's quite a serious thing, wow.

Speaker 2:

OK, I cannot believe that your grandpa is. He's 105.

Speaker 1:

I'll have to share a picture with you. He's such an adorable, I cannot believe that your grandpa is. He's 105. I'll have to share a picture with you. He's such an adorable, I cannot believe that that is amazing.

Speaker 2:

Still going strong, oh my gosh. But no, what you said just about like being. You know, one day, when you're a grandma and like that, you want to be vibrant and be, you know, be able to play with your grandkids and not be asleep on the couch. You know, I know that resonates a lot with with my listeners, some of my listeners who are, who are our age. You know, I'm 53 and just like I want to be able to play with my grandkids and be aware of my own life. You know, not be zoned out. So, yeah, ok.

Speaker 2:

So when you switched careers and you went from that identity of like Ruby in the wine, in the alcohol industry, and now you're walking into a party with like all your friends from you know your life, who know you as Ruby in the wine industry, how did you, how did you, walk into a party and not have them hand you a glass of wine or like, hey, oh, she's here, here, get her the red, she likes the red. How do you navigate that Cause? I know there's people who listen, who are like brand new on their alcohol-free journey, and going out can be so overwhelming and it can be debilitating. You know, like how am I going to navigate this?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think, for I'll just share what I did. From early on, I was very careful with where I went out. I protected my sobriety, I protected my alcohol-free journey and I actually didn't go out as much. To tell you, the honest at first and then which is a big part of my story is I found a keto diet Okay, great, just alcohol-free and sugar-free, amazing. And so that was my little excuse that I used I would go over to a friend's house, or I didn't, because I wasn't ready to share. Yep, it felt very shameful. Now I scream it from the rooftops.

Speaker 1:

Obviously I'm doing it here on a podcast, but, like I was, it took a while to like share that. So for me it was about health. I just would tell my parents, my family, my friends I'm on a keto diet. There's no alcohol, no sugar. I'm really serious about this because I want to lose the weight again and get healthy. And it wasn't foolproof, because I remember my aunt saying like, well, you can just have one glass right, or the vodka doesn't have calories, you can have vodka right. And I would be like, no, I'm very serious. But my trick is that I tell clients and that I'm going to share with your listeners is just to have another drink in your hand at all times, whether that's a can of sparkling soda, or you come making a mocktail like I love your recipes or coffee if it's earlier in the day, like just have something in your hand. I remember going to my grandmother's funeral and knowing that there's lots of alcoholic funerals and I just had my Starbucks cup and it was empty, but I just grabbed it.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like a security blanket, isn't it Like? It's like a little, and it's almost like a little power thing too, because people then don't ask you what do you want to drink. They don't ask you, and that's. That's that challenge, Like, what do I say when they say what can I get you to drink? Oh, you don't have a drink here, let me get you something.

Speaker 1:

They hand it to you and you're like, oh my gosh, you're holding it. Now I would come. I put a couple of La Croix's in my purse. My favorite mocktail because I'm sugar-free is just like sparkling water lime and maybe some unsweetened cranberry juice. It's like I love it, perfect. I tried some of the AF wines and, I'll be honest, I haven't found very many that I liked.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Okay. I found some sparkling non-alcoholic, you know, sparkling. That I think is pretty good, but it's been challenging. But what's been fun is making mocktails. I do that with my sister-in-law.

Speaker 2:

We made different mocktails Again, mine She'll put all the sugar, yeah, but you have sugar-free, which there's tons of options now, do you use, like I'll use, a monk fruit simple syrup?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I use something like that yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'll use a monk fruit. Simple syrup is what I use typically, because otherwise it's just like, yeah, you're just swapping out alcohol for sugar.

Speaker 1:

So monk fruit is the one, or stevia that I eat.

Speaker 2:

It comes in liquid form or powdered or granulated.

Speaker 1:

It's like sugar. I love it. I actually love monk fruit. It's a little sweeter or something, but it's really good. How do you?

Speaker 2:

help. I don't want to say patients, clients who, because I know something I hear from women in my membership is like, oh my gosh, I'm eating out the house, like I'm finding the candy from Halloween, you know, and we're in June or whatever, and because they're like craving that sugar. So how do you help people go from alcohol to just now? Now they're just going to eat all the sugar, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I honestly say anything but alcohol, go ahead for the short term. Short term, you know you're having the alcohol cravings. Go ahead candy, eat the cake, eat the ice cream. Short term, I did I. I let myself like if I was craving, because I was like anything but alcohol. I, if I'm craving, you know, a hamburger, eat it. If I'm craving a chocolate cake, eat it. Like, yeah, it's because I knew that alcohol was the like, the, the big domino in my life that was gonna. Once I got that under control, then I could then look at my sugar and I did like, looked at my diet, looked at my sugar, it just for me it took about 100 days, 100 days of allowing my cravings to be whatever. And then I was like OK, I'm ready to look at the next thing, and sugar was the first thing.

Speaker 2:

That's really wise. Yeah, that's wise because otherwise it's too overwhelming. Like I can't have anything, like I can't, oh my gosh. And your body is genuinely craving, craving that sugar, because you're missing it.

Speaker 1:

You're missing it from the alcohol, so yeah, I ate so much sugar, so why deny it? That's where I'm at.

Speaker 2:

That's really good. I mean, I think that's good. You can only do so much at a time and I love that that. The alcohol is that huge domino and once you get that going, then, like you said, like the possibilities, now your life is opened up to all these possibilities, you're not burdened with shame and with that feeling of darkness, the heaviness of the cycle.

Speaker 1:

And think about this when you go alcohol free, it's not like you're sleeping better, so you're feeling better. Your brain is freed up and clear, so you're making better decisions, and it's just like your life gets better and better and better, and eventually you're going to feel so good that you're going to want to exercise. You're just going to want. It's natural. I naturally wanted to exercise. I naturally wanted to eat better, healthier, like, nourish my body, rather than just think about a diet. So this is a lifestyle, like. I think once that, if you can get the mindset of this, is a lifestyle. This is for life, you know, rather than a diet. Right, I'm going to be alcohol free for one year and then I'll start drinking again. Well, or you know, then you're going to go back to that cycle with food or alcohol or anything that's addictive.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we usually go back even harder than we were, and harder, and we gain more weight. Yeah, it's usually up even more. Yeah. So when somebody works with you, do you because, as a certified, this naked mind, this naked mind. Yes, okay, annie Grace, how many lives has her book changed?

Speaker 1:

So do people come and they read the book with you? Do you have group coaching? How do you work with clients? Good question Mostly well. I'm in the anti-racist programs and then I have my own one-on-one clients where we work privately. We could go through the book Oftentimes. I just suggest they read the book to have kind of a foundation. That's like the foundation book that I recommend because you learn the science.

Speaker 1:

You're not alone. There's so much hope, mm-hmm. And my program is actually personalized to each and every person. I bring to the table what you need at the time you need it. That's what's the brilliant part of being a one-on-one coach. Now I also have group programs, and what's brilliant about group programs is you hear from other people and you're not alone, and you're like, oh my gosh, I can relate to that and that, and it's not me that has this. I'm not the only one that has a problem you know and I can relate to you.

Speaker 1:

I've been there, so it's like I can just guide you through this, this mindset change and start to open up, to feeling your feelings again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's so freeing to feel like you are not alone because for so many years, right, we lied, we believed that lie. I'm the only one. I thought I was the only one waking up at three in the morning. I really did.

Speaker 1:

I was like what kind of?

Speaker 2:

mom am.

Speaker 1:

I, I really did.

Speaker 2:

The room is spinning. Netflix is asking me do you want to continue watching? I?

Speaker 1:

don't remember what I was watching.

Speaker 2:

What do you mean? Continue watching? Can we start over? What are we watching? What did I order the next day?

Speaker 1:

amazon packages show up like it was like christmas I mean, who did I?

Speaker 2:

that was the worst. I mean I would, when I'd start really start going at night, I'd be like, okay, I cannot get on facebook, because then I'd start making comments on, like you know, friends from high school. I'd be commenting on their pictures.

Speaker 1:

I'd wake up in the morning I had to say comments back and I'm like yeah and I'm like so I was like that was a hard rule. I was like, do not go on Facebook, I would post the random things and like the next day, I'd be like why did I post?

Speaker 2:

weird picture, yeah, or who, who posted on my account. I'm like, oh my gosh, that was me at 237 in the morning, you know whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Sorry, all that to say to not feel like you're the only one, because I certainly felt that way. I think all many of us were. We believed that lie, that we were the only ones, the only ones and we're not. So, yeah, to have that group coaching and that connection of other people, like oh my gosh, she's going going through the same thing, it's so encouraging, it's so uplifting that you are not alone, you're not the only one. So I love it.

Speaker 1:

If I could say anything I think that's the first thing I say to everyone Like you're not alone. And then there's so much hope, like those two, the combination of those two things, and then if I can get the concepts you know through coaching, eventually, like you did the best that you could with the tools that you had that's another thing that I love that phrase because it's true, I was at the time you have to put yourself back into that time I was doing the best that I could at the time, and the best and what I knew was drinking wine to relieve stress, to cope with being a single mom, to cope with all of that.

Speaker 1:

It just turns out it's an addictive coping tool that ended up harming me more at the end, but it worked. You know, I thought it worked anyway. I convinced myself it worked for many years. Yeah, so you are doing the best that you can.

Speaker 2:

There's so much compassion there and empathy there is, and I love that you just shared that there's so much hope, that there's so much hope and it doesn't matter like how bad things have been, you've been doing the best that you can, and there is hope and there's freedom. There's authentic freedom waiting for you on the other side of alcohol, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Even if you can't picture it. You don't even know what it you know. You hear me saying, oh, I'm sleeping better and feeling better. And you're like, what I don't get that? You don't have to get it, you just let it unfold. You just say I'm ready to feel better, so I'm going to start this journey, and you just make a decision to start it and do whatever you can, because life on the other side is so much better.

Speaker 2:

So much better. I love that. Okay, that's so beautiful, and let it unfold, because, right, it doesn't happen magically, doesn't happen overnight. It just starts to unfold, it starts to present itself in front of you as you keep taking a new step each day, each moment. Not drinking. It's so, so amazing. Okay, ruby, I just love you. Love you. Thank you for coming on to Thriving Alcohol-Free. I'm so glad that my listeners get to meet you today. So, thank you. Thank you for all the work that you're doing and for just your encouraging heart to support others. It's really amazing.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for allowing me to come and speak to your listeners, because I'm so passionate about what I do. So thank you, love it, love it.

Speaker 2:

Of course. Okay, well, make sure everybody's following you on Instagram at Ruby Williams Coaching, and she is the co-host of Feel Lit Alcohol-Free Podcast. So please give a listen and we're actually gonna be guests on your podcast. So have fun. A little podcast trade. It was like very unintentional, very like organic. It organically happened. I love that. So that's the best. That's when the best things in life happen. So, all right, love you, guys, and we will talk to you soon. Big time cheers to you for tuning into the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.