Thriving Alcohol-Free with Mocktail Mom

Ep 118 | Sobriety Journey of Chasing Sunsets Instead of Cocktails

• Deb, Mocktail Mom • Season 2 • Episode 117

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Kristin Horstman shares her journey from gray area drinking to becoming a certified coach who helps others find freedom from alcohol while developing powerful nervous system regulation techniques.

• Drinking exists on a spectrum with millions of people in the "gray area" between occasional consumption and end-stage addiction
• Neural pathways created by habits can't be erased, but can go dormant when we build new, healthier pathways
• The sunset hours naturally trigger our nervous system to downshift, which is why Kristen promotes "Sunsets are the new happy hour."
• Taking a 30-day break from alcohol provides valuable data about your relationship with drinking
• If quitting feels difficult now, it won't become easier later – addressing it sooner rather than later is key
• Non-alcoholic options like mocktails, Athletic Brewing, and Töst sparkling tea can provide satisfying alternatives
• When ordering at restaurants, ask for "refreshing, not sweet" mocktails to avoid overly sugary concoctions

Follow Kristen on Instagram @CoachKristinHorstman and visit her website to learn more about gray area drinking coaching and nervous system regulation techniques.



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Speaker 1:

Okay, hey friends, it's Deb. Welcome back to Thriving Alcohol-Free. How are you? I am so excited. Today I am meeting an Instagram friend who I feel like I know you. I do know you. I know you from Instagram, and so to see you here and be talking screen to screen. Kristen Horsman is my guest today. Welcome, welcome, my friend. So great to see you. Hi, I'm so excited.

Speaker 1:

You are darling and I just your Instagram page just you just exude joy, happiness, positivity, like the energy that you put out is so encouraging and uplifting. So I want everybody to make sure you're following Kristen. Her Instagram is coach Kristen Horstman H-O-R-S-T-M-A-N. I'll put the link down below in our show notes so you can just click on that. But make sure you're following her because her page is so encouraging.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to read your bio the challenge of the day for Deb. I'm going to read your bio and then we're going to get into it and just have a good time. I can't wait to hear a little bit about your story and what you're doing in the sober just phenomenal. So Kristen Horseman is a certified gray area drinking master coach, health coach, speaker, blogger, zero proof experiences facilitator and family support advocate, dedicated to helping individuals and families navigate challenges related to alcohol use and anxiety. Since beginning her sobriety journey in January 2021, kristen has empowered others to overcome obstacles and create healthier, more fulfilling lives, guided by her mantra.

Speaker 1:

For years, I drank alcohol in the gray area, but my forever decision to stop is very black and white. Her coaching focuses on building self-regulation techniques to heal and nourish the nervous system, helping clients regain balance, resilience and clarity in their lives Incredible. The work you're doing is incredible and I'm so excited to hear about gray area drinking and the work that you're doing, coaching and helping us, you know, regulate our nervous system. So, yeah, yeah, so do you. Do you want to share a little bit kind of about your? You and I broke up with alcohol about the same time. I was December 31st 2020.

Speaker 2:

So we're like we're basically sober twins.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, tell me a little bit about how you, how you got there before we talk about anything else, so I like to.

Speaker 2:

So, basically, I drink alcohol for 20 years of my life, starting around 18 to about 38. And I was in the gray area for I would say, like I would argue, like 95% of that. But there were years where my drinking actually got very extreme and it really did go outside the gray area, into what I call the danger zone. Um yeah, so like there was an, there was like a period of time in 2009. Um, so I started, you know, drinking probably around 2000 and around 2009,. I was going through like a personal crisis. There were some things going on and I noticed like my drinking ramped up around that time and but then I was able to kind of like rein it in. I took breaks, I got a therapist and then I kind of focused on health and running again and things like that, and then so then I was in the gray area and but then, fast forward, I was going and then in 2017, my drinking started to escalate again and again. Like life was coming at me. It was like a perfect storm of things. That was like overwhelming, like day after day, it was like overwhelmed, overwhelmed, more overwhelmed, and I was like I felt like I couldn't catch a break and I had so much anxiety. And then I got some. I got some blood testing and my liver enzymes were through the roof, very, very scary and it was. And then you know so that, but that year, that was a tough year I did.

Speaker 2:

I did like white knuckle some some time away from alcohol, but then I kept going back to it and I but I wasn't mentally ready, like my mindset was like I'm not giving up alcohol. Like you know, like alcohol is life, you know, like, right, yeah, yeah, oh, my God. Like I'm the party girl and I host the parties and we built a bar in our house and we were constantly like you know, I was like you know the yeah, I was the party girl, so to, I was supporting the drinks and encouraging it and arranging the wine tastings and arranging all those things. And you know, all of a sudden, you're going to, you're going to tell me I can't drink anymore. Like I'm, like I don't think so.

Speaker 2:

So you know, I tried a few things. I even went to like an AA meeting or two, but I just wasn't there, I wasn't ready. And so 2018 was kind of like up and down and then, but then, 2019, I was still struggling and it was so hard to get through a day an hour, like you know. It was like I couldn't stop and then my my mental health was just declining so bad, like my depression got so severe to the point where I lost my will to live. I truly didn't want to live anymore.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh Kristen, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was pretty. Yeah, it was really severe. And so I found a place in Washington actually that I went to for 30 days. Really, yeah, it was a husband and wife created this beautiful program in Washington dual diagnosis. It was on a farm. It was only like a little cohort of 10. When we went, we learned about spiritual psychology. We had a lot of group therapy, individual therapy. There was a lot of dignity at this place too. I had my own room, I had my own space. We even had our cell phone every other day to keep in contact with our loved ones Nice, but we weren't on our device all day, which was kind of perfect, just like get it for an hour, say hi to your family and go, and then go back to healing and so anyway.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, great, nice balance.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, After that like 30 day experience like that was huge, Like my mental health like dramatically changed for the better, and then that was like like a big time away from drinking. But then when I got back to reality, in the fall, you know, we started to find some alternatives. My husband is incredible. His name's Evan.

Speaker 1:

We've been together since we were teenagers by the way, yeah, yeah, really he's like your high school sweetheart, or?

Speaker 2:

like middle school sweetheart, Like we didn't go to high school together. But we met when we were 15 and 17 years old and it was love at first sight. No, but we met when we were 15 and 17 years old and it was love at first sight. He's, he's amazing. He's like, yeah, he's my soulmate, he 27 years I've been in love with.

Speaker 1:

we've been in love with each other and we'll be married 19 this summer.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, wow, wow, that is so beautiful, that is so beautiful.

Speaker 1:

So unusual to hear that, especially for a young person.

Speaker 2:

My God, young, yeah, young, you're very young, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like incredible to have him as a support and he was trying so hard to just love on me and support me and be, you know, compassionate and understanding and, and you know, so he he started to dig into research and he started to find books like from Annie Grace, and then, oh my God, once I found this naked mind, so many things changed. Like that book just opened my mind.

Speaker 1:

Everybody says that when they read that book. Right, yeah, yeah. So, oh my God.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, it totally changed my life because then it started this whole new path for me, where I'm like, wait a minute, now I'm learning about the neuroscience, which took a lot of shame out of the equation and, and that helped me tremendously, because I think shame was like crushing me those first, you know, a couple of years of that really bad struggle. So now I'm like, okay, so it just started to change my mindset. Then, all of a sudden, I'm finding sober influencers on on Instagram and so now I'm like following Annie Grace. Then I found Laura McCowan, you know. Then I read her book, which was also incredible, and following her was a big part of my journey too, so shout out to her as well. Um, you know, yeah. And then I found, right around that time as well, jolene Park's TED talk Same, yeah, I think I found it in like November of 2019, if memory recalls.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yep.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So it's like I watched that TED Talk and it definitely made an impact. So, like you know, we started to really like unravel, like kind of like break the spell, you know, of alcohol, like being in that trance, thinking I needed it, you know, thinking that if I lost it it would be a punishment and that I couldn't really truly live life anymore. So it started to really, you know, open my eyes and make me change my mindset. And then, um, and then also around that time, my husband said I found, I found a puppy. Do you, do you want to get a puppy? Um, so, like, like backstory, like I love dogs, dogs, I'm obsessed with dogs. I am that person walking down the street. If I see your dog, I might run into traffic to go across the street and pet it. I'm a little crazy that way.

Speaker 2:

And I had a dog when I was a child, from five to about. She passed when I graduated high school and I know I was a only child and you know I was raised by my single mom and my and my grandma, and you know those shout out to those two incredible women, by the way, love them dearly, they're amazing. But then to have, like, the dog is like my companion, my best friend, and then obviously, like there was so much regulation there, right Oxytocin, loving on her and I learned too about emotions with animals. She taught me so much, my childhood dog, you know. If we cried, one of us cried, she started almost like crying you know, isn't that amazing, how they can sense like when you're sick they sense like okay, we're staying in bed all day.

Speaker 1:

We're not getting up. I don't like a potty, they know.

Speaker 2:

They will just like lay on you and like love on you. Oh my God, it's incredible. They're such great teachers. So that was an awesome lesson for me to learn as a child. So then when he said, you know, let's get a dog, I was like, okay, and like even the notion, the concept, like like, like all of a sudden I'm like like I started to get happy Okay, what kind of dog did you guys get? She is a English cream golden retriever. And then that, and then that same month that we got her, um, I found a new therapist. And that was amazing too, cause I had been searching for the right therapist. She started teaching me DBT skills. So that was incredible too.

Speaker 2:

Dbt skill, dialectical behavior therapy and they created it originally. It was created by Marsha Linehan as her name and it was originally for borderline personality disorder, but they have discovered that it actually is a super helpful modality for PTSD, trauma, substance use disorder, basically every condition, every condition, it's applicable and it's really cool. So there's mindfulness, there's interpersonal relationships, there's distress tolerance, for example. So it's really like it's a beautiful modality. I think I tell everybody about it, okay and yeah, and it works. Some physiology in there too, and physiology is very important, and then that will lead to kind of our gray area discussion talk. So yeah, so then. So I find the therapist, I get the dog, so I'm actually starting 2020 on the right foot, like I'm actually feeling better, you're feeling good, here we go into a new year, a new year.

Speaker 2:

This is your year, new year.

Speaker 1:

New year 2020. It's going to be great 2020, right Woo.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then and then, as we know, shutdown happened very quickly after I started making these new changes, but that actually was. That was amazing too. I actually credit the pandemic with. It was like a very helpful part of my journey because it was actually. It helped with the FOMO piece Right, Because you're not.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're not missing out on going wine tasting or setting up a big event or everybody coming over to the bar right, Because you can't.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah. I was like I wasn't like the. Either I was either like the loser sitting at home, you know, like the couple of years before that, or I would go out with my friends and I'd sit there drinking iced tea. It was like in 2019, like mocktails, weren't that big Right.

Speaker 2:

you're like I have a Diet Coke. Yeah, I was like, okay, iced tea, and I'm like sipping it, like angrily, and I'm watching all of them like just throw back wine, like oh, it's no big deal, and and and then like, oh, so overwhelming. And then the cravings and the temptation. And if I went out with my friends, it seems like I would relapse if I didn't go out with them. I, and then I had this jealousy and this FOMO, and then I would find a way to drink over that too. So it was like a lose-lose situation. So then in the pandemic I'm like, okay, great, nobody's going out, I don't have to be the loser.

Speaker 1:

I'm good, yes, I'm good. Stay home, figure this out with my dog.

Speaker 2:

I'm home with my puppy and my loving husband and we're in beautiful Arizona where the weather was perfection, and I just like walked and walked and walked and then, yeah, it was wonderful. You know, I just needed that distance from drinking friends, the drinking culture, needed that distance from drinking friends, the drinking culture, and then just some other like toxic situations that I was in that I didn't like they were holding me back and I just didn't realize them, and it was like that distance that you know that helps so much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and then yeah. So then, like at 2020 was like the best year of my struggle. That's when I really started to gain some days, some weeks, even some months of sobriety before a relapse. And then those relapses, like they weren't so severe, you know, I was out. I could like bounce back faster, so I made so many gains in 2020. It really was a good year, um, yeah. And then towards the end of 2020, um had had like kind of like summer into fall. I had had like really good run, like a really good time away from drinking, like I worked really hard, you know, but the cravings were still there.

Speaker 2:

So if I saw like a bottle of alcohol, like a few feet from me. I'd be like like inside. It'd be like like the monster. I could smell it. I was walking to the back of a wine to like, buy the non-alcoholic options.

Speaker 1:

I'd be walking past the regular wine that I used to purchase and I could physically smell it. I couldn't physically, you know what I mean. I couldn't really smell it, but like my brain was smelling it Crazy.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God Crazy, I was dog walking back trying to find some non-alcoholic options. It makes total sense Cause, like our animal brain is a sensory experience, so the five senses, so it makes total sense. So, yeah, so then, like towards the um, towards the end of 2020, like into the holidays, um, I was going through some hard things again and I and I was like, ooh, I talked myself into drinking again and I was like, I was like, oh, it's not that bad.

Speaker 1:

It'll help. This will help things, yep.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, this will help. It's not like, oh look, I just took a bunch of months off, Like, oh, I don't have you know it's not that bad.

Speaker 1:

I don't have a problem, I'm fine I don't have a problem, it's fine.

Speaker 2:

Of course, I'm bringing it home. I'm not telling my husband. So you know, if you're, if you're bringing it home and you're, and you're sneaking around with it, that's definitely not a good sign, but that's where I was at at that time and um, so then you know, I started to drink just a little bit here and there, and he did notice a shift, but I was. I was denying it cause I was, but it was, and it only took a matter of days where it was like, okay, I was kind of getting away with it. And then fast forward to January 1st 2021.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I started drinking during the day and I remember, like I don't think I ate much that day and then all of a sudden, I blacked out on my back patio on a like just sitting on a chair on my back patio in broad daylight, like, so I'm sitting on this chair and then, all of a sudden, my husband like is like shaking me, waking me up, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like what happened? He's like, yeah, what, what happened? And he's like shaking and like, obviously like, so, like, oh my God, like so worried. And I was like, oh my God, I'm like wait a minute. So I started drinking just a little bit again, and I went from zero to a hundred. I went from like I blacked out on my porch in the middle of the day. I was like no, no, so I I'm so glad that happened, though, like I tell everybody that story Like I have.

Speaker 1:

I was the lead domino to like to change everything. It's what it's what.

Speaker 2:

Like truly broke the spell. Like so, that night, as the alcohol was leaving my body, I was like I'm done, I am done, I am not doing this anymore. Like I knew I was done, like everything in my body was like we're done.

Speaker 2:

And I yeah, it was. I will never forget that day for the rest of my life. So then the next day, um, I just spent all day like the next, like 20, 48 hours. I was on the computer like a mad woman and I was like I was like researching. I'm like, okay, kristen, you've been trying everything, you've thrown the book at this. What is the missing piece? There is a missing piece to this puzzle and you're going to figure it out, you know, cause I'm that high achiever Like, oh, I set my mind to something and I'm going to get it.

Speaker 2:

So I'm on Annie Grace's website. Laura McCowan's website. I had actually taken an interest, a really great class with Laura McCowan in the fall called the Bigger. Yes, okay, and that was. That was really helpful. So, like, okay, let me check her out again. And then I revisited Jolene's TED Talk Jolene Park.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yep, yep, yes, the, the, the, the woman who had meant, or I guess, came up with the phrase right Great, she pioneered she pioneered it. Yes, yes, she didn't invent it, but she pioneered it because there's medical research behind that term, actually, which we can talk about she kind of made it famous.

Speaker 2:

Yep, she made it famous A hundred percent. Yeah, she really did coin it for mainstream society. And so I went back to the TED talk and then I was on her website and I really dove into her website and she was talking about like the missing physiological pieces to heal the cravings in the brain. And then she talked about rewiring your stress response and I'm like that's it. It's the cravings Ding, ding, ding, ding, like, yeah, like everything else. I was like, okay, like mindset's good Mental health was getting better, and I was like I don't want to drink anymore.

Speaker 2:

What do I need to do to? You know, like just live my life in peace already? So, so you know, and she's talking about booking discovery calls and I was like, oh, let's just have a 20 minute chat and get on my calendar, right. And I want to say by, like, by, like the fifth, we were having our discovery call and and and I was like you know, I started telling her my story and and she's like, oh my God, she's like, oh, yeah, you're a gray area drinker. Uh, you know, and yeah, I've helped, like hundreds of women like you.

Speaker 1:

I'm like, oh, like, like me like I can be helped, right Cause you feel so. You feel like it's helpless, you feel so alone, you feel like you're the only one to hear that, yeah, yeah, to hear that's incredible and I was like, oh, this woman's going to change my life Within 48 hours.

Speaker 2:

We were off to the races, we were coaching and it just seemed like like I blinked and like my whole life was different, Like it was incredible.

Speaker 2:

Everything changed. And what's what's really neat, too, is right before I hired her, right before that last day, one like in December of 2020, um, take, I had found the courage, uh, actually like find a program that I wanted to do. Uh, um, I made a career change. I left one organization and then I've I went back to the um Institute for Integrative Nutrition, iin, which is a health coaching school.

Speaker 2:

I didn't even really understand health coaching that well, but when I saw the curriculum, I was like, okay, there's something powerful. Like I had discovered them years ago, but I always had them on the back burner and, fortunately, like around that time, I was like I was talking to Evan about it. I was like, oh, you know, I'm on that health coaching website, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like for the school. And he's like, so you enrolled, right? I'm like, oh, I should enroll.

Speaker 2:

He's like, what are you waiting for? I'm like, okay, so I enrolled, but classes weren't going to start to like kind of mid to end of January. Um, so, but it was so neat Cause, like then, like you know, I hired Jolene, I start actually being a client of coaching. And then, a couple of weeks later, like classes started and and it was amazing Cause I was like getting this like throughout the whole year. I was getting like a double dose of education where I'm like physically in the client seat and then I'm learning about coaching behind the scenes and and it was incredible it that was like the timing was amazing, so that was 2022.

Speaker 1:

2021. 2021, 2021.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're doing the coaching.

Speaker 1:

Amazing, yeah, so the world was still kind of quiet. Right it was very quiet still. Yeah, there wasn't pressure yet to go out and about.

Speaker 2:

Yes, not yet.

Speaker 1:

Yes, oh, no, you could still kind of cocoon a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh, the cocoon bubble was so healing, it was A hundred percent.

Speaker 1:

Did you trademark a phrase yes? So can you tell everybody about this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Okay, and about yeah, about this. Yes, I don't know if you can see my necklace and my earrings. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Sunset. It's a sunset Beautiful.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, the year, the year I stopped drinking, I, I all of a sudden, like just started to really gravitate towards sunsets, like like I mean, who doesn't love a sunset? Right, right, but but I don't know, there was something that year. There was like this force, like like driving me to them, and I just started seeking them out. And then I just like I, and then I realized I said, you know what Sunsets are? The new happy hour?

Speaker 1:

They are.

Speaker 2:

I mean so and like I like. One of my catchphrases is like you know, I had to look it up. I looked up my days 1,500,. As of today, 1,566 days ago, I started chasing sunsets instead of my next cocktail and it led me down the path of finding the best version of me alcohol-free, anxiety-free and inspiring others.

Speaker 1:

Amazing. It's amazing, kristen, how everything, everything has changed Everything, everything, everything. Could you have ever imagined? I mean I know for myself and I know for other guests who've been on the podcast. It's like we never could have imagined. Like back in my day of drinking, like are you kidding me to be talking to people about mocktails? Are you kidding me? I want to sit on my couch and zone out at night, watch TV after my kids go to bed. That's what.

Speaker 2:

I'd like to do. That was my goal, you know. Basically.

Speaker 1:

You guys go to bed. I need to bond with my chart day Right, everything's changed. Incredible, incredible, yes.

Speaker 2:

And there's actual science too, behind sunset time. So yeah, there is which is so fascinating, right Cause I'm such a science nerd. So basically, like all day long we're output, output, right, Right, Kind of our eight, whatever our eight to five is. It could be, you know, working, it could be raising children, it could be both Sure, Like it's kind of like that's our time to output. And then, you know, when the shadows lengthen and the sun is going down, our nervous system intuitively it wants to end the day chapter and it wants to downshift into the night chapter.

Speaker 1:

Like our nervous system knows I didn't realize that I just knew I love sunsets. Yes, I didn't realize like there was something else going on.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's like it's our internal bio rhythms, like those circadian rhythms. So, yeah, so the nervous system is like, literally seeking, like give me nourishment, help me downshift. Well, what did we? Well, what happened in our culture? We invented happy hour and now we're all drinking it, you know, between four and seven o'clock right, five o'clock somewhere, yep, right. So now, like, that is just where society has shifted. So I, intuitively, that year, like shifted to. I'm just going to like seek out the sunset every day and and like observe the colors and and like get lost in the beauty of it, and I could feel these sunsets like in my body, you know, like I like, and then the joy that would just the rush, so beautiful yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God, oh yeah. So it's just amazing to you know. And for, for, for. So my recommendation it's like okay, what do you want to do at sunset? You know, at sunset time, you know what do you want to do at sunset time. What do you want to do at 5 o'clock? What's your new happy hour if you're on the path to stopping drinking? Is it going for a walk? Is it journaling? Is it making a beautiful mocktail? Yep, is it cooking a meal? Is that your time to read a few pages of your favorite book, like your dog for a walk, right? Is that your time to read your favorite, a few pages of your favorite?

Speaker 1:

book. Like your dog for a walk right. What is it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, bond with the dog, you know, yeah, whatever, whatever you, whatever you, whatever resonates with you, you know, and that is a beautiful way to start really rewiring that stress response and changing that habit. And you know, and like James Clear says, like voting for that, that new version of you in his book Atomic Habits.

Speaker 1:

Voting for that new version of you.

Speaker 2:

I love that, yeah, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:

Can you talk a little bit about your forever decision to stop drinking?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, so it's funny because that is like when I'm working with clients that comes in week two almost every single time. Really, yes, yes, cause it's like day one. You know, some of them are still kind of like okay, I know, I want to like take this break, I want to take, you know, the 30. Yeah, or one day I'm going to, I'm going to moderate and be a now and again drinker. I'm like okay, okay, like I don't no pressure.

Speaker 2:

That's fine, I get no pressure, you know so. But like, but after that, even after the first week, the first week is so powerful, you know, because they, they just start to see these shifts with their nervous system and they start to feel a little bit more regulated. And then they start to apply like these new tools that I've been teaching them already. You know, like day one, you know week one, and then we meet again in the second week and it's like, oh, okay, and then they start to realize, like you know, let's talk about forever, and I'm not sure like what forever is. And I actually tell people, like stop right there, like no pressure, there is no pressure, like we don't have to worry about forever. Forever is a daunting concept for like anything in life. So you know, yeah, don't why worry about that. Just stay in your bubble of like this 30, 60, 90 day window that you're working with me, like I'm with you. Every day we're walking, we communicate. Every day when we're, we're working together. Yeah, so people don't have to feel like there's there's been thrown off the cliff and they're just like hanging on for dear life, trying to white knuckle this whole experience. So, yeah, so then, um, so yeah, it's like take the pressure off and then. But for me, so, yeah, once, once I started to just feel so good and it didn't really take that long. I don't know if it took like maybe weeks, maybe the first month where I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't need to go back to drinking. And and then what I've learned too through my through physically going through the program and then through all of my education around this topic. So we've got these neural pathways in our brain and we've created a neural pathway, like I created a neural pathway that led to drinking right. I created lots of neural pathways. We've all created lots of neural pathways in our life, like a neural pathway where we learned how to read, or we learned how to ride a bike, bike. Or even the neural pathway where, every day, you get up and brush your teeth right, like, do you think about it? Like I don't think we, we don't think about it right. Our brain is always trying to conserve energy, so it wants to make these roads really smooth, like, so it wants, it wants to automate things. So a habit you repeat is going to make that road really, really smooth in your brain. So I repeated that habit of drinking right For years and years and years. So that road, it was very smooth.

Speaker 2:

So with this work, we actually we can't make that road disappear. It is permanent. However, we can make it go dormant, we can make it go quiet, we can make it, we can create like roadblocks so that we never go down it again, and then we start creating a new neural pathway that leads to the sunsets every day at five o'clock. That leads to, you know, breathing every time we're dysregulated. That, you know, leads to eating healthy. And, you know, focusing on our, you know, it's just like noticing. You know, focusing on our, um, you know, it was just like noticing, even noticing our body, like, oh, I noticed I'm dysregulated, oh, I noticed I'm stressed, oh, I noticed I'm hungry. You know, noticing those things, um, we, we, that's a skill and we learn it. So we want to repeat these new habits. So, from what I know and what I've learned, so I have no cravings, the cravings are gone.

Speaker 1:

For alcohol Are gone.

Speaker 2:

For alcohol? Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You ever have ever, have a moment where you like a tiny little, like going to a restaurant or like a you know nothing? Never.

Speaker 2:

Not anymore, not anymore that's great Not anymore.

Speaker 1:

I rare. I mean rarely. It'll be like it's once a year maybe, where there's some time where I'm like, oh drink sounds really good right now and then, and then it's like a fleeting, it's gone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, in the beginning, you know beginning a lot of cravings, yeah, but not. Oh, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And cravings were the most painful thing I have ever gone in my entire life and I never, ever, ever want to feel them again. So I know that if I consume alcohol, I will light up that road that I made go dormant and quiet. I will light it up like a Christmas tree.

Speaker 1:

You're right, you're right, yep, yep.

Speaker 2:

And then the cravings come back and the misery starts and it's like oh man, no, I don't want to start over again.

Speaker 1:

And that's the hard part is the starting. The beginning is the hard part. So it's like no, I don't want to do that again, I want to do the first 30 days again.

Speaker 2:

Never want to do that again. I'm with you. I never want to do that again.

Speaker 1:

I love it, but I love that you say a forever decision, Cause I mean even sometimes now I'm like I don't know, like I'll never, ever have a drink. I don't think I ever, ever will. No-transcript. You're like this is my forever decision. I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh yeah, and I know it. I know it in my, my bones and in my body and it's like the way you explained it, just about those neuropathways, and I agree with you right, like you do that with sugar, like bread or whatever, if I'll go like weeks and weeks not eating bread, I'm fine.

Speaker 1:

And then I'm like, oh, I'll have a roll at Texas roadhouse. That's Interesting. Exactly, exactly, totally Okay. What advice would you give for someone who's like newly sober, or maybe just contemplating, you know, taking a break or working with you what advice would? You give to them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so you know, gray area drinkers. First of all, let me quickly just go into that. So the definition of that. So we have learned that drinking is a spectrum. It is no longer this black or white issue like, oh, these people have a problem and these people don't. You know, there was medical research done in 2010. It was a dietetic study researching, you know, prevention of disease and optimal health, and they, what they did was they tracked people's calories over an entire year and at the end of the year, yeah, they looked at all this data and when they they happened to kind of notice the alcohol calories and they're like, oh wow, drinking is really a spectrum and you've got something called, you've got a category called now and again, and that's somebody who just drinks really rarely. That's somebody who it's like it's not even truly on their radar, like they go to a wedding and they toast a green bride Yep.

Speaker 2:

Yep, you know, and then maybe, like a month goes by and they don't even think about it again. You know, and and but the technical definition of now and again is two or fewer servings of alcohol per week. So two or fewer, okay, okay, and but it really is truly just not top of mind, it's not like a go-to. And then, and then there's another extreme category of drinkers, which is that end stage drinker, that danger zone that I that I call it, where you need medical intervention, where you might be at risk for seizures, organ failure, cirrhosis, things like that, so that that is end stage drinking, but literally everyone else is in between.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

So that's where, like, millions of drinkers live, is in this gray area and you know, the spectrum kind of varies. It can kind of be like lighter and then it can kind of, you know, go more advanced. And all the terms that we throw in front, all the adjectives, if we call ourselves a moderate drinker, a casual drinker, if we have alcohol use disorder, any of that, you're in the gray area, it's a gray area.

Speaker 1:

Even earlier you said like that. You were at times you were in the danger zone of gray area drinking. You know, and I feel like a lot of us, you know we go from there were times like we're kind of in that zone and maybe there are times where we were closer to the take it or leave it. You know, maybe not so much but you know more closer to it, and then other times where it was like the drinking was just picked way, picked up for whatever life stresses, things happening. Yep, exactly, I was everywhere. It's a huge range and you can be all over that range. Yes, you can kind of back up Absolutely, yeah, so.

Speaker 2:

So my so basically like a gray area drinker, by the way, has the capacity and ability to take breaks. So they'll do dry January. They'll do sober October. They'll maybe like train for a marathon and go okay, I'm going to focus on my marathon, so I'm not going to, you know, drink for like three months or whatever. Or they're like oh, I want to lose some weight, so I'm going to do like whole 30 and you know, or or some kind of diet like that. So my advice to everybody because I meet a lot of people who tell me like oh yeah, I have a glass of wine at night every day, you know, with dinner or whatever, or I drink every day. So my advice is take 30 days off, very like, whenever you can. You know once a year, or like, like, but take the 30 days off because you need to know if you can. You know once a year, or like, like, but take the 30 days off because you need to know if you can.

Speaker 2:

And it's it's data, it's information. Treat it like a curiosity experiment. What is happening during those 30 days, now that you've completely walked away from alcohol, like you've taken it out completely, what is happening? Are you? Do you notice cravings? Do you notice that you know you're not sure what to do when you're dysregulated, when you're stressed out? Do you feel like you're missing out? There's no right or wrong answer. It's just data, it's just. It's your journey and I just, if it's hard to stop now, today, april 16th, or yeah, like whatever day it is, then it's not going to get easier later.

Speaker 1:

That is such a good point, kristen. Yeah, if it's hard now, it's not going to get easier. I've never thought about it like that.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

It will never get easier. No, take a break now and treat it, like you said, like a curiosity study. Yes, and just see. See how you feel Like the wine's still going to be there in 30 days. It's not like total wine's going to be, like closed up, they're not going.

Speaker 1:

You know they're not closing shop because you stopped drinking for 30 days. They'll still be there. Yeah, like the alcohol's still be there, but I love that it's not going. Thank you, yay. Um, do you have any like go-tos or is alcohol free options? Do they help you on your journey? I know for some people that can be a trigger, like is that something?

Speaker 2:

that you enjoy, do you?

Speaker 1:

like non-alcoholic options? Do you like mocktail? Obviously, you've got my book. Thank you for your encouragement and you've shared my book on your Instagram and stuff. Thank you, you're so sweet. Look at you, darling. Look at you. Got little post-it notes there. You're making the mocktails.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, because it was, it was so funny, right as soon as I got your book this is one of the ones that one is so good Seasons of life, cinnamon chai whiskey.

Speaker 2:

One is so delicious, oh my God. And then, oh, it was so neat too, because I had just come home from Sober in the City, oh yeah, and in our goodie bag we got like this Wilderton botanical drink. So that's what I used for the NA whiskey, great NA spirit, yep yeah. And then I also had little droppers of all the bitters. Oh, perfect, you were ready to go. Oh my God, it was fabulous. And it was so perfect Cause, like I think this, I got this book in my hands and then my husband said to me the next day, like, oh, okay, for Thanksgiving, can you, can you, can you handle the mocktails for the night, can?

Speaker 1:

that be your job, and I was like I've got a book. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I was like oh, my God the timing was impeccable.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad. Yeah, it came out on election day, ironically.

Speaker 2:

I was like.

Speaker 1:

I was like America's going to want to drink, no matter what side you're on. Everyone's wondering, so here's a book for you. Oh gosh, yes, okay.

Speaker 2:

So do you have like favorite?

Speaker 1:

go-tos for your non-alcoholic options that you enjoy. Yeah, Like yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so yeah, like when I my first couple of years of not drinking um, yeah, I, you know, I I wasn't. It wasn't necessarily like the biggest you know thing that I needed, but but actually no, in January of 2021, I made some dry January posts and I started making mocktails for fun and that was actually kind of like my first like telling people, like without telling telling people without telling people that I was like I'm drinking something different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that actually that was. That was pretty fun to kind of play with recipes and stuff like that. But yeah, it luckily for me like it's not. It's not a trigger at all, but that is a very personal decision, and that is something else to notice. I'm going to use that word notice again. Just notice for you. You know what it does, but I really like carbonation. So when I'm out I'm like I want club soda, I want things. I love the NA beers because so good, there's some good ones.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I love the fizz, I like athletic brew. I look for the different ones, fun flavors, and it's a treat. When I go out to dinner it really is or if I'm going to people's houses for a potluck or to celebrate, I'll bring a whole six-pack athletic brew and you know, yeah, that one. Oh, and toast. I love toast so much. Oh, my God, it's so good. Yeah, it's really good, oh my.

Speaker 2:

God, I'm obsessed with toast and it's so cool because it's like it comes in a gorgeous bottle and it looks like wine, but it's actually sparkling tea, tea.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a tea based. Yeah, it's a tea, it's just a drink, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it's absolutely, and it's such a, it's such a crowd pleaser Like I bring it everywhere I'm like, and I don't care if you're, you know right.

Speaker 1:

Drinker or not drinker, right, people like it. It's a nice. It's a nice drink. People guzzle it. Yeah yeah, they have small bottles. I haven't seen the small.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I saw it. I want to say it was in Portland, portland, maine, for the Silver in the City event 23. I was walking around downtown and there was like a shop, a bottle shop, and I saw it in the fridge and I'm like, oh my God, I've never seen individual bottles of toast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. That's so good to know, yeah, yeah, that's so cute.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and then um yeah and oh, ginger beer.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, I love, yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, and it's great because, like, every restaurant on the planet has club soda and a lot of them carry gin. You know ginger beer? Uh, you know, and and if sometimes like, if I don't see it on the menu, although it's really exciting, Cause more and more and more restaurants are just like on their menu.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's awesome, it's so exciting, so much yes.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God, it's, it's amazing. But if they don't um, then like we'll, we'll talk to either the waiter or the bartender directly and we'll say you know, um, we would love a mocktail and and our our thing is, we love surprises. We're like, oh, surprises you know, have fun, get creative, yeah, make it sweet, yep, yeah. But we say both, my husband and I both say refreshing, not sweet.

Speaker 1:

Refreshing, not sweet.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I like that yes. Yes, right, because otherwise it's just otherwise it's just like yeah, you're like. It's just like syrup, syrupy, like soda on top of juice on top of juice on top of soda on top of sugar on top of syrup.

Speaker 1:

I like that and I'm like Fresh, not sweet.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, yeah, very nice.

Speaker 1:

Oh my.

Speaker 2:

God, and nine times out of ten they come out fabulous. So kudos to all the bartenders having fun and playing mixology with.

Speaker 1:

Making it happen for us.

Speaker 2:

Making it happen for us. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's so nice. They're usually very receptive. It's very nice. Yeah, it's exciting. You are refreshing and sweet. Yes, seriously, kristen, you are just, you're so delightful and I love the work, the really deep work. I mean you really dropped some nuggets for us.

Speaker 2:

So thank you, thank you, yeah, yeah, you're doing wonderful work with your clients and I'm so grateful to be connected.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for sharing your story today, really.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, thank you for having me on. Yeah, this was yeah. When you reached out to me, I was like oh my God, I was like Deb. Deb knows who I am. Yes, shut up, oh, stop. Oh, that's so funny. No, not, I don't think so, only in my own mind to my dog I am.

Speaker 1:

Let me tell you to Coco, I am poor thing I had. She had to go to work with my husband one day. I was running errands. Normally I just bring her in the car with me if the weather's okay, like she'll wait in the car if it's like not hot or whatever, and I she was at his office and I came to pick her up and you would have thought I had like left her on the side of the road. He is the spare human, so yes to her, I'm a big deal. To everybody else Doesn't matter. Oh my God, oh yeah, she went, nuts, nuts, yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, I'll say that's my total tangent.

Speaker 2:

I cut that out.

Speaker 1:

Whatever, nobody cares. All right, love you, my friend. I'm going to stop recording now, okay, everybody. Thank you for listening. Keep tuning in and make sure you are following Kristen on Instagram. It's CoachKristenHorsman. I'll put the Instagram and I'll put her website down below so you guys can connect with her. Perfect.

Speaker 2:

Yay.